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Posted by Dr. Zachary Smith on July 31, 2009, 1:22 pm
First, I extend profuse gratitude to everyone on all three groups
(rec.crafts.textiles.quilting, rec.crafts.textiles.needlework,
alt.language.latin) who gave their time, effort, and input to my
question; it was a great thread. As tizocgringo on alt.language.latin
said:
show/hide quoted text
> I enjoy and appreciate the way you all are answering Dr. Smith's
> question.
Me too. The discussion has now pretty much petered out on all three
groups. It ran longest on alt.language.latin, which also yielded the
best (IMHO) answer/guess. As Nightmist so aptly put it:
show/hide quoted text
> The problem with [L]atin is it varies a bit from school to school and
> purpose to purpose. Modern school (medical, horticultural, and so on)
> [L]atin is differen from [C]hurch [L]atin is different from "classical"
> [L]atin is different from medival [L]atin etc.
This was affirmed, in a way, over in alt.language.latin by Johannes
Patruus:
show/hide quoted text
> In cases like this a definitive verdict is probably unattainable and we
> have to settle for approximations.
That's pretty much what I was expecting:
show/hide quoted text
> I'm not necessarily looking for a
> literal translation. Rather, what the common person-on-the-via Appia
> might have called a crazy quilt (or what they might call it today if
> Latin weren't "dead").
As far as the quilt part goes, according to the site recommended by
heidi (was rabbit2b):
http://ablemedia.com/ctcweb/showcase/wordsonline.html
there apparently IS a reasonably accurate Latin translation for
"quilt":
cento, centonis N M 3 1 M [XXXCO]
patchwork quilt, blanket or curtain made of old garments sewn
together; rags;
It was the "crazy" part that drove everyone... well... crazy.
Rather than settling for a literal translation dealing with a state of
sanity, I opined:
show/hide quoted text
> ... perhaps we should be looking in a different direction for a better
> descriptive of the *intent* of "crazy"; I'm reasonably convinced that
> whoever chose that particular word was being cute/humorous, working in
> the vernacular, going for multiple meanings, [and/or] pizzazz. "Crazy quilt"
> sounds a whole lot more attention-grabbing, and rolls off the tongue
> much easier, than "irregular-patch quilt" or "made-from-leftovers
> quilt", or other literal albeit better descriptive terms.
But in common Latin usage, a descriptive term is indeed very likely
what would have been used. Going back to the translation site, after
trying several adjectives to get their colloquial meanings, the two
best choices I found were:
inaequalis, inaequale, inaequalior -or -us, inaequalissimus -a -um
ADJ [XXXBO]
uneven; unequal; not smooth/level (surface); irregular (shape); patchy/
variable
and
inordinatus, inordinata, inordinatum ADJ [XXXCO]
disordered, not arranged; irregular; disorderly, not legal;
occurring irregularly; in confusion; W:not in formation (troops);
Which leaves us with two candidates:
cento inaequalis or
cento inordinatus
Patruus confirms:
show/hide quoted text
> Both of the above are correct in form, and perhaps as close to being as
> accurate in meaning as we are going to get. If you need the plurals, they
> are centones inaequales and centones inordinati.
For my own answer (the one I was looking for when I began this saga),
I've settled on the former - cento inaequalis - YMMV. Another idea
that sprang from my original thought (to embroider the Latin phrase on
my crazy quilt) is to have a block with *several* or *all* of the
suggested phrases embroidered on it! Let the peons figure THAT one
out! 8^D
If anyone's interested, I encourage you to visit the other discussion
groups and review the threads; there's a lot of interesting stuff
there, and I learned a LOT.
Dr. Smith
Oh, the pain... THE PAIN...
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Posted by heidi (was rabbit2b) on July 31, 2009, 3:42 pm
Thanks for the update! Interesting stuff...
--Heidi
http://community.webshots.com/user/rabbit2b
wrote:
(snipped)
show/hide quoted text
> Which leaves us with two candidates:
> cento inaequalis =A0or
> cento inordinatus
> Patruus confirms:
> > Both of the above are correct in form, and perhaps as close to being as
> > accurate in meaning as we are going to get. If you need the plurals, th=
ey
show/hide quoted text
> > are centones inaequales and centones inordinati.
> For my own answer (the one I was looking for when I began this saga),
> I've settled on the former - cento inaequalis - YMMV. =A0Another idea
> that sprang from my original thought (to embroider the Latin phrase on
> my crazy quilt) is to have a block with *several* or *all* of the
> suggested phrases embroidered on it! =A0Let the peons figure THAT one
> out! =A08^D
> If anyone's interested, I encourage you to visit the other discussion
> groups and review the threads; there's a lot of interesting stuff
> there, and I learned a LOT.
> Dr. Smith
> Oh, the pain... THE PAIN...
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Posted by mirjam on August 1, 2009, 8:05 am
Dr smith here is Linda`s answer to your letter which i forwarded
to
her .
==================
Dear Dr. Smith, I'm a quilter and a scholar, including Latin, Virgil
and co.- just love the Georgics. Quilters, both male and female don't
have to be unlettered, or subject to weird mental states. We're just
people who use cloth, needle and thread as our closest to hand
medium.
With respect,Linda.
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Posted by Dr. Zachary Smith on August 1, 2009, 9:17 am
show/hide quoted text
> =A0 Dr smith here is Linda`s =A0answer to your letter which i forwarded
> to
> her .
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Dear Dr. Smith, I'm a quilter and a scholar, including Latin, Virgil
> and co.- just love the Georgics. Quilters, both male and female don't
> have to be unlettered, or subject to weird mental states. We're just
> people who use cloth, needle and thread as our closest to hand
> medium.
> With respect,Linda.
Sorry, but I have no idea what "letter" you're referring to or in what
context to put the above.
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> question.