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Posted by Roberta on April 24, 2009, 10:13 am
It's great to have the theory, and fun to play with the color wheels
and palette combinations. But at some point, the design on the
computer screen has to be translated into fabric available from some
retailer. Frustrating! So I try not to worry about it any more and
seldom plan anything beyond one or 2 steps ahead. I work from my
(medium-large) stash and use whatever is there, even if it leads to
unorthodox combinations (sometimes lots more interesting than
following the "rules"). In any case, the values are usually more
important to the success of a design than the colors. My only rule is
that every quilt must include something out of the scrap basket.
Roberta in D, Queen of the Scrap Heap
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:23:16 -0700 (PDT), Dr.Smith@rochester.rr.com
wrote:
show/hide quoted text
>On Apr 23, 11:44 pm, wholeyl...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Apr 23, 7:25 pm, Dr.Sm...@rochester.rr.com wrote:
>> > DW (Am I saying that right?) introduced me to the Ives Color Wheel
>> > this evening (I was showing her the color toy app in the "fun color
>> > wheel" thread...) Sorry if this is a "duh" question, but is anyone
>> > doing anything with this concept (put forth in Wolfram's book, "Color
>> > Play") or is it so basic it no longer merits mention? I'm finding it
>> > (as many topics quiltish, new to me) fascinating. I checked the
>> > archives, and last it was mentioned by name was back in July, ' 05.
>> > Oh, the palettes... THE PALETTES...
>> > Doc Smith
>> as i understand it, there are several 'color' wheels, depending on
>> what you are doing. for example, there is a color wheel for testing
>> human vision and the rgb (red green blue) color wheel for television.
>> the ives color wheel is the one used in fabric printing. i have
>> wolfram's 3-in-1 pocket color tool, similar to the big fan of paint
>> chip interior decorators use. it matches fabric colors much better
>> than the paint chips do ;-)
>Yes, we have the 3-in-1 tool along with the book. I look at the
>colors, and so many are so close to each other (and I actually worked
>in color-matching out of HS) that I get confused and frustrated.
>Trying to guess at RGB values to replicate colors in the book or tool
>is virtually impossible, unless someone knows some secret, trick, or
>place where I can obtain values (as I did with the Arts & Crafts
>colors).
>As DW explained it to me though, using the Ives wheel results in more
>startling (impressive?) contrasts & compliments than using a
>traditional RYB wheel. Having a somewhat logical mind, I figured if
>you want a green that's exactly halfway between yellow and blue, you
>would use equal parts of each (or split the RGB values evenly) but it
>turns out that it doesn't always look that way to the eye. And then
>some of the coolest hues aren't necessarily the pure ones, but have
>some of the third primary thrown in... but how much? Math & science
>seem to be going out the window in favor of the eye. That's ok...
>until you look at your fabric/color under different kinds of light
>(incandescent/flourescent/sunlight) due to the chemicals making up the
>dyes. But you folks know all this stuff, right?
>Doc
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Posted by Pati, in Phx on April 24, 2009, 3:09 pm
Hi Doc.
Since the "eye" is the final observer, it is probably the most
show/hide quoted text
important element. <VBG>
I first learned basic RYB color wheel basics when I was very young,
probably by 1st or 2nd grade. (Or so it seems.) It feels like I have
"always" known that yellow + blue =3D green and so forth.
I also have had the science background to learn the "physics" of
color.
However, I have always put together colors that I like with each
other. Yes, there are times my color sense is a bit "different" but I
show/hide quoted text
like it. <G> My Dad had some very definite things to say about colors,
especially what colors "don't go together", and I disagree with some
show/hide quoted text
of them. <G> (As a redhead, I grew up knowing that most reds and
virtually all pinks are terrible colors for me to wear. And both high
school and college had red a major school color. sigh.)
As to the green being half way between yellow and blue..... didn't you
ever have to mix paints in school? even in finger painting and such.
It seems that very often we had only red, yellow and blue paints and
had to mix them to get other colors. You quickly learn that a very
show/hide quoted text
tiny bit of blue turns yellow into green. <G>
And it is very easy to get various shades of mud brown.
And many of us, I suspect, know that different light can "change" the
color of fabrics. Which is why you will often see people taking bolts
of fabric to a window or door of a shop to check the color. Many of
us have seen the awful effects of fluorescent lights on some of our
clothes.... think back to the old style parking lot/outdoor lighting
show/hide quoted text
that was horrible. <G> With the advent of the "Ott Light" and other
"true color" lighting we have been blessed with lights that simulate
sunlight much better.
Knowing some of the basics about color is wonderful. Letting the
theories rule your decisions is not.
And, as has been said, finding, or even dying, fabrics to match a
show/hide quoted text
preselected exact color is frustrating and counter productive. <VBG>
I do use EQ to design quilts. And I stick in fabrics from the palettes
included with the program, even though they are out of date. Chances
are I will not find the fabrics I think I would want from the program
anyway. I write my shopping list as values, and sometimes color
families. Then I find a wonderful fabric that speaks to me and go from
there.
Any way you do it is fine, just having fun doing the designing and
such is fine too. But, for me at least, the payoff is working with
actual fabric and thread and such. And often finding a wonderful,
surprising fabric that is really just perfect for some pattern and
going from there is wonderful too.
Have fun,
Pati, in Phx
show/hide quoted text
> As DW explained it to me though, using the Ives wheel results in more
> startling (impressive?) contrasts & compliments than using a
> traditional RYB wheel. =A0Having a somewhat logical mind, I figured if
> you want a green that's exactly halfway between yellow and blue, you
> would use equal parts of each (or split the RGB values evenly) but it
> turns out that it doesn't always look that way to the eye. =A0And then
> some of the coolest hues aren't necessarily the pure ones, but have
> some of the third primary thrown in... but how much? =A0Math & science
> seem to be going out the window in favor of the eye. =A0That's ok...
> until you look at your fabric/color under different kinds of light
> (incandescent/flourescent/sunlight) due to the chemicals making up the
> dyes. =A0But you folks know all this stuff, right?
> Doc
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Posted by Patti on April 24, 2009, 3:11 am
I had no idea about colour, really, until I read Joen Wolfrom's book.
It changed my whole attitude (not that my colour preferences changed,
but I loved the whole logic system that was applied to it). I often
show/hide quoted text
think that I would do better in a completely abstract world >gg<.
I have never worked to find exact fabric colours; nor have I ever done
show/hide quoted text
dyeing (after the one class!! in our course) - and I never intend to >g<
(dyeing I mean).
.
In message
Dr.Smith@rochester.rr.com writes
show/hide quoted text
>DW (Am I saying that right?) introduced me to the Ives Color Wheel
>this evening (I was showing her the color toy app in the "fun color
>wheel" thread...) Sorry if this is a "duh" question, but is anyone
>doing anything with this concept (put forth in Wolfram's book, "Color
>Play") or is it so basic it no longer merits mention? I'm finding it
>(as many topics quiltish, new to me) fascinating. I checked the
>archives, and last it was mentioned by name was back in July, ' 05.
>Oh, the palettes... THE PALETTES...
>Doc Smith
--
Best Regards
pat on the hill
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Posted by Polly Esther on April 24, 2009, 10:37 am
I enjoy Wolfrom's book for the 3rd. Very often, two fabrics from my stash
want to be together and don't give me a clue as to what would play nicely
with them. Wolfrom always has the answer. Polly
show/hide quoted text
>I had no idea about colour, really, until I read Joen Wolfrom's book. It
>changed my whole attitude (not that my colour preferences changed, but I
>loved the whole logic system that was applied to it). I often think that I
>would do better in a completely abstract world >gg<.
> I have never worked to find exact fabric colours; nor have I ever done
> dyeing (after the one class!! in our course) - and I never intend to >g<
> (dyeing I mean).
> .
> In message
> Dr.Smith@rochester.rr.com writes
>>DW (Am I saying that right?) introduced me to the Ives Color Wheel
>>this evening (I was showing her the color toy app in the "fun color
>>wheel" thread...) Sorry if this is a "duh" question, but is anyone
>>doing anything with this concept (put forth in Wolfram's book, "Color
>>Play") or is it so basic it no longer merits mention? I'm finding it
>>(as many topics quiltish, new to me) fascinating. I checked the
>>archives, and last it was mentioned by name was back in July, ' 05.
>>Oh, the palettes... THE PALETTES...
>>Doc Smith
> --
> Best Regards
> pat on the hill
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Posted by Sandy on April 24, 2009, 11:51 am
show/hide quoted text
> I enjoy Wolfrom's book for the 3rd. Very often, two fabrics from my stash
> want to be together and don't give me a clue as to what would play nicely
> with them. Wolfrom always has the answer. Polly
>
>
> >I had no idea about colour, really, until I read Joen Wolfrom's book. It
> >changed my whole attitude (not that my colour preferences changed, but I
> >loved the whole logic system that was applied to it). I often think that I
> >would do better in a completely abstract world >gg<.
> > I have never worked to find exact fabric colours; nor have I ever done
> > dyeing (after the one class!! in our course) - and I never intend to >g<
> > (dyeing I mean).
So which of Joen Wolfram's books is the best one to start with? Since
you both think she's great (which is what I've heard over the years, but
I've never looked at her books), I'd love your opinion.
--
Sandy in Henderson, near Las Vegas
sw.foster1 (at) gmail (dot) com (remove/change the obvious)
http://www.sandymike.net
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>> On Apr 23, 7:25 pm, Dr.Sm...@rochester.rr.com wrote:
>> > DW (Am I saying that right?) introduced me to the Ives Color Wheel
>> > this evening (I was showing her the color toy app in the "fun color
>> > wheel" thread...) Sorry if this is a "duh" question, but is anyone
>> > doing anything with this concept (put forth in Wolfram's book, "Color
>> > Play") or is it so basic it no longer merits mention? I'm finding it
>> > (as many topics quiltish, new to me) fascinating. I checked the
>> > archives, and last it was mentioned by name was back in July, ' 05.
>> > Oh, the palettes... THE PALETTES...
>> > Doc Smith
>> as i understand it, there are several 'color' wheels, depending on
>> what you are doing. for example, there is a color wheel for testing
>> human vision and the rgb (red green blue) color wheel for television.
>> the ives color wheel is the one used in fabric printing. i have
>> wolfram's 3-in-1 pocket color tool, similar to the big fan of paint
>> chip interior decorators use. it matches fabric colors much better
>> than the paint chips do ;-)
>Yes, we have the 3-in-1 tool along with the book. I look at the
>colors, and so many are so close to each other (and I actually worked
>in color-matching out of HS) that I get confused and frustrated.
>Trying to guess at RGB values to replicate colors in the book or tool
>is virtually impossible, unless someone knows some secret, trick, or
>place where I can obtain values (as I did with the Arts & Crafts
>colors).
>As DW explained it to me though, using the Ives wheel results in more
>startling (impressive?) contrasts & compliments than using a
>traditional RYB wheel. Having a somewhat logical mind, I figured if
>you want a green that's exactly halfway between yellow and blue, you
>would use equal parts of each (or split the RGB values evenly) but it
>turns out that it doesn't always look that way to the eye. And then
>some of the coolest hues aren't necessarily the pure ones, but have
>some of the third primary thrown in... but how much? Math & science
>seem to be going out the window in favor of the eye. That's ok...
>until you look at your fabric/color under different kinds of light
>(incandescent/flourescent/sunlight) due to the chemicals making up the
>dyes. But you folks know all this stuff, right?
>Doc