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Posted by Dr. Zachary Smith on September 16, 2009, 8:40 am
show/hide quoted text
> I remember how delighted I was (a couple of hours before someone rear-end=
ed
show/hide quoted text
> my car and put me back in pain!) when I was at work last April and realiz=
ed
show/hide quoted text
> that a task I have to do frequently at work, which usually causes me pain
> (sometimes agony), didn't hurt at all! =A0It had been a long time since I=
felt
show/hide quoted text
> that good. It will probably be awhile before I get back there. Hopefully,
> with treatment, I'll heal faster this time.
Hi Pam,
This is difficult for me. I don't begrudge you anything; I don't
doubt your pain.
I'm glad that you have been without pain at times and that you have
the prospect of healing yet again.
Yet I confess a jealousy, if I'm going to be honest, that may be
shared by some, if they're going to be honest, who do not have that
prospect. For a great many of us the reality is that there is no
prospect except to be the same, or more likely, to deteriorate as time
goes by. I'm not being negative or pesimistic; I've been told by both
medical professionals and peers that I have one of the healthiest and
upbeat outlooks they've seen for someone with my challenges.
The "current" pain scale in use by most hospitals has many flaws, some
of which have already been mentioned. Another *major* flaw is that as
human beings we are all different, including our tolerance for, and
perception of, pain. One person's "7" may be another person's "3",
and when the pain is our own, it is naturally more intense/worse than
the other guy's. I've seen "drama royalty" (so as not to be sexist)
walking around carrying on with activities claiming to be at level 9
or 10 (the worst imaginable) when, as previously opined, those kinds
of levels should have one in an ER in agony and in need of some
*heavy* opioid pain medication.
When speaking of acute vs. chronic pain the clinical differences are
clear and fairly well-defined. However there is another distinction =96
one that the literature (e.g. general med school curricula, which can
amount to as little as 1/2 hr. spent on treatment of pain & pain meds)
usually fails to mention - and that is a psychological difference.
When we experience acute pain =96 hitting a thumb with a hammer, a
toothache, breaking a bone, stepping on a nail =96 we know that that
pain will end, whether with medication, physical therapy or
chiropractic, or eventually, with normal healing. It=92s just a matter
of following a prescibed regimen of treatment and waiting it out.
With chronic pain, we have no such knowledge. Regardless of the
intensity of the pain, we don=92t know when it will end or even IF it
will end. This has an *entirely* different effect on the psyche in
ways that no-one is really prepared for =96 the unknown quantity*.
* something whose nature, behavior, or importance is uncertain and
unpredictable
Without the objectivity of something like Dr. Hochman's scale, the
subjectivity of the current scale combined with the psychological
effects of *chronic* intractable pain, can easily, and over time,
escalate a 3 to an 8, like the effects of so-called Chinese water
torture.
Doc
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Posted by on September 16, 2009, 9:55 am
Doc, your words are well chosen.
I also have chronic pain, and have dealt with it for more than 20
years. There are days I want to just pull the covers over my head and
call in "ouch" for the day. Most often, I trudge on. I know how much I
can do, and in my stubborness will not let the pain dictate [too much]
the way I will spend my time. Some around me who know of the situation
sometimes express concern about the levels of my activities. I do as
much as I can handle and push it sometimes.
So, I walk as much as I can, lift the sewing machines, sew, work too
hard and too long every day, while I can. Is it shortening my time to
be able to do anything at all? That's not even something I can
consider.
Ginger in CA
wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> > I remember how delighted I was (a couple of hours before someone rear-e=
nded
show/hide quoted text
> > my car and put me back in pain!) when I was at work last April and real=
ized
show/hide quoted text
> > that a task I have to do frequently at work, which usually causes me pa=
in
show/hide quoted text
> > (sometimes agony), didn't hurt at all! =A0It had been a long time since=
I felt
show/hide quoted text
> > that good. It will probably be awhile before I get back there. Hopefull=
y,
show/hide quoted text
> > with treatment, I'll heal faster this time.
> Hi Pam,
> This is difficult for me. =A0I don't begrudge you anything; I don't
> doubt your pain.
> I'm glad that you have been without pain at times and that you have
> the prospect of healing yet again.
> Yet I confess a jealousy, if I'm going to be honest, that may be
> shared by some, if they're going to be honest, who do not have that
> prospect. =A0For a great many of us the reality is that there is no
> prospect except to be the same, or more likely, to deteriorate as time
> goes by. =A0I'm not being negative or pesimistic; I've been told by both
> medical professionals and peers that I have one of the healthiest and
> upbeat outlooks they've seen for someone with my challenges.
> The "current" pain scale in use by most hospitals has many flaws, some
> of which have already been mentioned. =A0Another *major* flaw is that as
> human beings we are all different, including our tolerance for, and
> perception of, pain. =A0One person's "7" may be another person's "3",
> and when the pain is our own, it is naturally more intense/worse than
> the other guy's. =A0I've seen "drama royalty" (so as not to be sexist)
> walking around carrying on with activities claiming to be at level 9
> or 10 (the worst imaginable) when, as previously opined, those kinds
> of levels should have one in an ER in agony and in need of some
> *heavy* opioid pain medication.
> When speaking of acute vs. chronic pain the clinical differences are
> clear and fairly well-defined. =A0However there is another distinction =
=96
show/hide quoted text
> one that the literature (e.g. general med school curricula, which can
> amount to as little as 1/2 hr. spent on treatment of pain & pain meds)
> usually fails to mention - and that is a psychological difference.
> When we experience acute pain =96 hitting a thumb with a hammer, a
> toothache, breaking a bone, stepping on a nail =96 we know that that
> pain will end, whether with medication, physical therapy or
> chiropractic, or eventually, with normal healing. =A0It=92s just a matter
> of following a prescibed regimen of treatment and waiting it out.
> With chronic pain, we have no such knowledge. =A0Regardless of the
> intensity of the pain, we don=92t know when it will end or even IF it
> will end. =A0This has an *entirely* different effect on the psyche in
> ways that no-one is really prepared for =96 the unknown quantity*.
> * something whose nature, behavior, or importance is uncertain and
> unpredictable
> Without the objectivity of something like Dr. Hochman's scale, the
> subjectivity of the current scale combined with the psychological
> effects of *chronic* intractable pain, can easily, and over time,
> escalate a 3 to an 8, like the effects of so-called Chinese water
> torture.
> Doc
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Posted by Kate XXXXXX on September 16, 2009, 10:47 am
gaw93031@msn.com wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> Doc, your words are well chosen.
> I also have chronic pain, and have dealt with it for more than 20
> years. There are days I want to just pull the covers over my head and
> call in "ouch" for the day. Most often, I trudge on. I know how much I
> can do, and in my stubborness will not let the pain dictate [too much]
> the way I will spend my time. Some around me who know of the situation
> sometimes express concern about the levels of my activities. I do as
> much as I can handle and push it sometimes.
>
> So, I walk as much as I can, lift the sewing machines, sew, work too
> hard and too long every day, while I can. Is it shortening my time to
> be able to do anything at all? That's not even something I can
> consider.
Ginger, I do this too. In my case I know it isn't going to make me
worse in the long run, and in fact, keeps me mobile and fitter than I
would be if I didn't just keep going. Sometimes it gets a bit grim, and
one just grits one's teeth and goes on, but usually a nice distraction
can sideline the pain for an hour or two.
I find swimming and stretching exercised help a lot, and walking helps
my knees: I have something long, complex and Latin wrong with them that
basically means I have wobbly kneecaps, and occasionally they feel like
they are dropping off. More often they feel like they have been nailed
on! Walking keeps the quadraceps strong, and helps keep the kneecaps in
place, which helps them hurt less, so even when it's a killer, I keep
walking.
((((((Hugs))))))
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
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Posted by onetexsun on September 16, 2009, 2:17 pm
When I read these discussions I always end up at a loss for how to
fee. I am on disability. Part of that is because the first symptom of
my physical crumbling was mental confusion. I really believed I was
developing early on-set Alzheimers. I lost all my contracts (I was a
professional writer/PR/web content producer) and was unable to figure
out how to look for more work. At the same time fatigue was turning me
into a turnip.
But the pain .... oh my, the pain. I tend to think mine is not that
bad. I push on as best I can and my doctors assure me that exercise is
necessary. I agree. But after 4 months of near daily walking for 30-45
minutes on my treadmill, I just crumbled again. I never really gained
any ability to do more or go farther or faster. The wall stayed pretty
much in place. But one night after walking (I really thought that I
couldn't, but pushed on), I couldn't step down off the thing by
myself. It was several days before I could get on again, and now I am
really lucky if I can walk 15-20 minutes, and when I do I pay for it
big time. My pain does stop me. And if it doesn't, I get sick. Really
sick -- fever over 100 F for days, pain at high levels all over -- not
just in my normal pain spots, migraines and if I'm really lucky,
vomiting. I want to be brave and I want to keep going. But if I do,
the payback is hell.
My DH and I drove over to Seattle Monday morning early. I don't take
travel well. By the time we arrived at our agreed upon destination, I
had a fever. By bedtime I was coughing and had a righteous sore
throat. Poor Russ drove me home yesterday with me nursing a miserable
head ache and dodging nausea all the way home. Today I'm "resting."
Damn. It's this inability to actually DO anything that drives me to
the brink. And yes, it will get worse. I can't stand to think about
it, and I have my exit strategy in place.
I agree that support groups are important, but I ended up having to
leave the only pain support group I found here. I know this sounds
totally stupid, but I was overwhelmed by the crushing wall of pain in
that room every month. OMG -- I would walk in and it was like I was
feeling everybody's pain. One young woman, I have no idea how she goes
on living, would walk in and I would have to leave. If I didn't I
would get a nausea effect from her presence. The air fairly vibrated
around her. She was so frail and nearly transparent.
I am better off by far than my friend who has Trigeminal Neuralgia
caused by an auto accident injury. I am less well than another friend
who has fibro but not lupus or Sjogren's Syndrome. Fibro will cripple
you, but it won't make your organs shut down. At least as far as
anybody knows right now, but I think that they know precious little
about these autoimmune diseases.
Doc, you give me hope in a grim sort of way. I sleep now. Didn't for 5
years. Then on a whim my dr. gave me amtriptylene -- an old tri-cyclic
antidepressant. I slept that night for the first time in years. It was
precious and for the most part it has lasted. Sometimes I have to take
two. Mostly I take one. I figure if you can keep going without sleep
then I should be able to keep going for sure now that I have found a
way to sleep. One warning: sometimes when I need two pills for an
extended time it causes a nasty flare of my Interstitial Cystitis.
Ugh. Look it up.
Cindy, I stopped writing my blog because I ran out anything to say. I
needed to concentrate on not being chronic for a while. I think I will
start blogging again soon with a new blog that somehow incorporates
all of me.
I pray all you who hurt will find comfort, peace and ease,
Sunny
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Posted by Kate XXXXXX on September 16, 2009, 7:27 pm
onetexsun wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> When I read these discussions I always end up at a loss for how to
> fee. I am on disability. Part of that is because the first symptom of
> my physical crumbling was mental confusion. I really believed I was
> developing early on-set Alzheimers. I lost all my contracts (I was a
> professional writer/PR/web content producer) and was unable to figure
> out how to look for more work. At the same time fatigue was turning me
> into a turnip.
>
> But the pain .... oh my, the pain. I tend to think mine is not that
> bad. I push on as best I can and my doctors assure me that exercise is
> necessary. I agree. But after 4 months of near daily walking for 30-45
> minutes on my treadmill, I just crumbled again. I never really gained
> any ability to do more or go farther or faster. The wall stayed pretty
> much in place. But one night after walking (I really thought that I
> couldn't, but pushed on), I couldn't step down off the thing by
> myself. It was several days before I could get on again, and now I am
> really lucky if I can walk 15-20 minutes, and when I do I pay for it
> big time. My pain does stop me. And if it doesn't, I get sick. Really
> sick -- fever over 100 F for days, pain at high levels all over -- not
> just in my normal pain spots, migraines and if I'm really lucky,
> vomiting. I want to be brave and I want to keep going. But if I do,
> the payback is hell.
>
> My DH and I drove over to Seattle Monday morning early. I don't take
> travel well. By the time we arrived at our agreed upon destination, I
> had a fever. By bedtime I was coughing and had a righteous sore
> throat. Poor Russ drove me home yesterday with me nursing a miserable
> head ache and dodging nausea all the way home. Today I'm "resting."
> Damn. It's this inability to actually DO anything that drives me to
> the brink. And yes, it will get worse. I can't stand to think about
> it, and I have my exit strategy in place.
>
> I agree that support groups are important, but I ended up having to
> leave the only pain support group I found here. I know this sounds
> totally stupid, but I was overwhelmed by the crushing wall of pain in
> that room every month. OMG -- I would walk in and it was like I was
> feeling everybody's pain. One young woman, I have no idea how she goes
> on living, would walk in and I would have to leave. If I didn't I
> would get a nausea effect from her presence. The air fairly vibrated
> around her. She was so frail and nearly transparent.
>
> I am better off by far than my friend who has Trigeminal Neuralgia
> caused by an auto accident injury. I am less well than another friend
> who has fibro but not lupus or Sjogren's Syndrome. Fibro will cripple
> you, but it won't make your organs shut down. At least as far as
> anybody knows right now, but I think that they know precious little
> about these autoimmune diseases.
>
> Doc, you give me hope in a grim sort of way. I sleep now. Didn't for 5
> years. Then on a whim my dr. gave me amtriptylene -- an old tri-cyclic
> antidepressant. I slept that night for the first time in years. It was
> precious and for the most part it has lasted. Sometimes I have to take
> two. Mostly I take one. I figure if you can keep going without sleep
> then I should be able to keep going for sure now that I have found a
> way to sleep. One warning: sometimes when I need two pills for an
> extended time it causes a nasty flare of my Interstitial Cystitis.
> Ugh. Look it up.
>
> Cindy, I stopped writing my blog because I ran out anything to say. I
> needed to concentrate on not being chronic for a while. I think I will
> start blogging again soon with a new blog that somehow incorporates
> all of me.
>
> I pray all you who hurt will find comfort, peace and ease,
> Sunny
Sunny, you have a lot more going on for you than I have. So far after
10 years, the fibro has got neither worse nor better: it just is. Goes
in cycles a bit... Some days/months/weeks/hours are better than others,
and breaking the lack of sleep cycle is an enormous help. I do add the
severe IBS (caused by a grumbling appendix, and aggravated by 10 years
of gall bladder disease), RSI in both shoulders and one wrist, a lazy
eustacian tube that gives me virtigo, and the knee problems, but they
are mere irritations compared with the load you carry. I'm not at all
surprised that the support group added to your load rather than lifting
it. I find that too with on-line groups. I did find the pain
management group a LOT of help. We started by banning phrase 'I can't
do that'. We worked towards being able to do things, where they were
physically possible, and where it was the pain that was stopping us
rather than the underlying problem.
My doc put me on amitriptylene: low doze, once a day before bed... OK,
it broke the cycle and I started sleeping again, but even on the low
doze I had, I got ALL the side effects! And it was like a chemical
lobotomy! After a while SOME of the side effects faded... But so did
the pain control and sleep effect! They upped the doze, and all the
side effects came back in spades. I cannot function on it. I really am
better off not sleeping than being a zombie with nausea, vitigo,
palpitations, blood pressure that rockets about all over the shop
(usually mine is on the low side - I see stars and keel over if I stand
up too suddenly!), and all the rest.
You have to do what you can. I admire the way you carry on despite all
the troubles that beset you. I feel lucky to be inspired by you.
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
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