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Posted by Joy Beeson on December 27, 2008, 7:40 pm
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 09:23:42 -0800 (PST), jaxashby@aol.com wrote:
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> BUT, if you're really worried about grommet corrosion, you can unlay
> (unwind) a small diameter nylong rope, take one of those strands and
> twist itself back on itself to form a small circle, cut a small hole
> (Exacto knife) in the canvas, then sew around the rope/hole, one
> stitch close (on the outside), the next stitch out a bit, continuing
> around the rope/hole until complete, two ropes/holes sewn somewhat
> close together, then sewn (kinda) to each other.
It seems to me that for drain holes, the kind of eyelets used on
18th-century corsets would work fine: Punch a hole with an awl,
trying not to break any threads, just push them aside. (Some *will*
break, but minimize it. It helps to start with a blunt needle, then
enlarge the hole with an awl.)
Overcast around the hole to keep it from closing up again. Some
re-enactors report that they use only twelve stitches to hold the
eyelet open. Do not buttonhole the eyelet; that's fine for
ornamental eyelets, but the purls of buttonholing wear away on laces.
And, in this case, would inhibit the flow of water.
(Above not from my own experience; such lacing as I've done is done
only once, so I just pull the laces through with a big needle.)
I imagine that it would be important to choose a weather-resistant
thread. I've heard that hemp fiber is weather-resistant, and it
would have the advantage of wicking water through the hole.
Joy Beeson
--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://roughsewing.home.comcast.net/ -- sewing
http://n3f.home.comcast.net/ -- Writers' Exchange
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
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Posted by on December 27, 2008, 7:17 pm
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> I imagine that it would be important to choose a weather-resistant
> thread. =EF=BF=BD I've heard that hemp fiber is weather-resistant, and it
> would have the advantage of wicking water through the hole.
Marine canvas supply houses and awning fabricators have sunlight
resistent thread, usually in many colors. That is sunlight resistent,
NOT sunlight proof. The thread generally lasts a few years in mid
latitude climates, much less in the tropics. In a water draining
application, the thread could be pretty far gone and still work. Gore-
Tex thread, now called Tenara, is guaranteed to last as long as the
canvas, but it is EXPENSIVE. Profilen thread is a competitor, and
available on smaller cones. Profilen is available (white or smoke
color) as "hembobs" (pre-wound bobbins, just the thread no spool
needed) for about $6.50 for 44 yards. Profilen hembobs are not likely
to be available in any local canvas supply house. Tenara and Profilen
are more difficult to machine sew with because of inconsistent tension
issues.
*Some* dental floss is PTFE (what Tenara and Profilen are made of),
but I can't remember which brands. People have be known to use dental
floss in a pinch.
I'd stay away from hemp fiber (or fibre, to our cousins) as the stuff
doesn't last, sun or otherwise.
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Posted by mm on December 28, 2008, 8:08 pm
wrote:
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>wrote:
>>> wrote:
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> My first thought was to install a row of 3-5 small grommets about
>>>>>>> 6-12" from the end of the awning. I wouldn't think a very big hole
>>>>>>> would be needed. I'm not sure how to install them. Aren't they usually
>>>>>>> snapped together by a tool that needs access to both sides and a solid
>>>>>>> base?
>>>>>>How about just re-mounting it so that one end is a little lower than the
>>>>>>other.
>>>>>>It'll drain to that end.
>>>>> Did you look at the link? The front is about 2-3 feet lower than the
>>>>> back when fully extended. That's more than "a little lower" and it's
>>>>> not enough.
>>>>As I said, lower one END. So the water that backs up at the edge strip flows
>>>>to
>>>>the end and off the awning. Should be able to reduce the pool to a part of an
>>>>inch.
>>> So that really is what you meant. That was my first impression, but I
>>> figured no one would actually suggest an awning that wasn't level.
>>> If a 2-foot drop over 12 feet is not enough, how much do you think I
>>> should lower one end ort a 20-foot awning. Should I raise one end
>>> above the roof or lower the other end below the top of the window?
>>>>> The canvas is pretty straight when dry. When it rains, it gets heavier
>>>>> and starts to sag. Once it gets below the front edge, water starts to
>>>>> accumulate.
>>>>If it sags even before the water pools, then my suggestion won't work.
Unless
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>>>>of
>>>>course, you drop the end even further.
>>> Yeah, like 5-6 feet.
>>>>A few, maybe useless ideas:
>>>>If it is possible to make the canvas tighter in the middle, and looser at the
>>>>ends, the water would be more likely to find its way to the ends. Or, you
>>>>could
>>>>figure out a way to add some tight ropes from the top to the bottom under the
>>>>canvas. The ropes alone could hold the canvas up, or some firm foam could be
>>>>placed between the canvas and the ropes to lift the canvas enough to prevend
>>>>pooling. (pool spagetti?) Perhaps ropes from each high corner to near the
>>>>center
>>>>at the bottom, so the lift is at the center where it pools.
>>>>Of course, a padded stick prop under the pooling point could fix it, but you
>>>>have to remember to put it there, and the wind could flap the canvas enough
to
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>>>>drop it.
>>> Are you sure your name isn't Rube Goldberg?
>>I agree with others that the Grommets may weaken the fabric, unless you sewed
on
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>>a reinforcement layer.
>>Despite the put-down, I'll make one more suggestion.
>Put down? I was joking. Rube Goldberg is a very funny guy. I just
>wouldn't want him designing my awning.
>>From looking at the website, it looks like the arms that extend this thing out
>>are probably not heavy enough to pull the canvas really tight, especially if
>>there isn't an arm in the center. An additional "stretcher" added near the
>>center, which could be added after opening the awning, would both hold the
>>canvas up and pull it tighter in the center, perhaps alleviating the problem.
>>Just a length of aluminum tubing with ends to allow it to engage the bottom
>>strip, and wedge in at the top. A chunk of 2x2 would perhaps work for a test.
>You'll probably take this wrong, too, but I am not going to go out and
>wedge a piece of tubing to stretch the awning every timne I open it.
If you don't want someone, who is already annoyed at you, to take
something the wrong way, just say "Thanks" and don't use his idea.
Saying thanks won't stop others from giving their suggestions.
If you think maybe the idea could be made to work, just say, "That's a
good idea, but I don't always open it the same distance..."
What you shouldn't do is start out "I am not going to go out..."
Everyone knows the tone of voice that accompanies those words. It
means, "What a stupid idea. I'm not going to do something stupid to
make your stupid idea work."
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>For one thing, I don't always open it the same distance. It's also on
>the second floor. It shades the patio, but it also shades the room
>over the patio.
Who cares?
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Posted by Pogonip on December 26, 2008, 6:01 pm
Bob F wrote:
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>> My first thought was to install a row of 3-5 small grommets about
>> 6-12" from the end of the awning. I wouldn't think a very big hole
>> would be needed. I'm not sure how to install them. Aren't they usually
>> snapped together by a tool that needs access to both sides and a solid
>> base?
>
> How about just re-mounting it so that one end is a little lower than the
other.
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> It'll drain to that end.
>
>
That would be true if the awning didn't sag under the water, which is
what usually happens. Also, it usually sags in the middle, not at the
sides, and putting drain holes in the middle defeats much of the purpose
of the awning. When I had fabric covered gazebos in my yard, I often
had to go out and use a broom to push up the fabric so that the water
(which is very heavy!) would run off the ends. I was ultimately
defeated by four feet of snow, which collapsed both gazebo roofs and
bent the metal structures. My new gazebo is cedar.
--
Joanne
stitches @ singerlady.reno.nv.us.earth.milky-way.com
http://members.tripod.com/~bernardschopen/
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Posted by on December 26, 2008, 7:12 pm
I've seen grommets used in canvas for that very reason. I've never
seen them used in awnings, but why not? Cheap brass grommets from a
hardware or home supply store work. if you want nickel plated
grommets, you can get them at a marine canvas supply house, such as
sailrite.com, but nickel plated grommets are "star" grommets (star
grommets also come in brass), which are much stronger AND require
special (and expensive) dies to set them. In an awning you won't need
the extra strength. I'd go with the hardware store grommets.
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> (unwind) a small diameter nylong rope, take one of those strands and
> twist itself back on itself to form a small circle, cut a small hole
> (Exacto knife) in the canvas, then sew around the rope/hole, one
> stitch close (on the outside), the next stitch out a bit, continuing
> around the rope/hole until complete, two ropes/holes sewn somewhat
> close together, then sewn (kinda) to each other.