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Posted by Caveat on August 25, 2005, 6:31 pm
> ... Our trip turned out to be more brutal than we could have possibly
>planned on. In some areas we were hiking on disintigrating shale
>walls with sheer cliff drop offs....
Hi Joy,
We just got back from two months of backcountry adventures in the
Northwest (that's where many of us *Zonies* go when the temperatures
break 110 degrees here) and found your epic adventure account in the
alt.rec.hiking group. Sorry for the late reply. Also, my apologies to
this group for the intrusion -- but you probably don't read that other
group any more (for which you could not be blamed).
Don't be so tough on yourself about the problems that you encountered
in the Grand Canyon. Two words can sum-up the reasons for your
difficulties: monsoon weather. Your trip was scheduled during the
summer monsoon rain season (you probably had no other choice) and
hiking in Arizona canyon country during this period can be challenging
to say the least. The eight-year drought with annual minimal rain came
to a sudden end this year and the results were pretty dramatic.
In loose sandstone country -- especially in deep canyons like the
Grand Canyon -- persistent rains quickly flow downhill and scour the
canyons. The run-offs erase trails and render creek crossings
impassable. There is no way to predict those in advance, of course,
and once the ground is saturated, rain quickly turns into walls of
water that race down those canyons with little warning. And they can
get big: one wiped out much of the North Kaibab Trail some years back,
washed away bridges, and destroyed portions of the water line that
supplies the South Rim. That major trail was closed for a long time.
Those of us who have been backcountry travelers for very long have
come to understand the perils that weather can present. I've been
caught in a few flash floods myself over the years. Bad weather in
these places can turn a nice hike into a life-and-death struggle for
survival. It's part of the outdoor world and isn't anyone's fault.
The Park Ranger who told you that "there is nothing wrong with that
hike" four months before you got there was correct. Hundreds of people
do that trip each summer without any problems. The trails are normally
obvious and easily followed, and the crossings of Tapeats Creek is
usually in just a few inches of water. But due to six days of rain in
the area, what you found was washed-out trails that were no longer
obvious, trail damage that then required dicey traverses in very steep
terrain, and flooded canyons with too much water to cross streams.
The good news is that you all made it out despite the numerous
unexpected dangers. On that route, there are usually people around to
help when you need it. In such conditions, everyone pitches in to get
everyone else out of there without serious injury and/or an expensive
helicopter extraction (there are a lot of those in the Canyon each
year). There are much worse outcomes in the Canyon very routinely,
even under perfect conditions. Having worked Search and Rescue for
many years, I've seen my share of those. It comes with the terrain.
Thanks also for the kind words about my help in the planning stages,
in the hiking group postings. Unfortunately, there are always the
opinionated Monday-morning-quarterbacks in that newsgroup who will
jump at the chance to belittle anyone and unfairly cast blame in an
effort to make themselves feel important. The positive contributions
those same people have made the group over time is typically nil. And
I was more than a little disturbed at the rudeness they showed you in
that thread. Personally, I don't plan to ever post again there. When
the trolls take over, and civility deteriorates that badly, there's no
reason to stay. The backcountry group is much the same now.
In summary, I admire your courage in tackling this very challenging
hike, but was sad to hear that the weather monster got you. But your
forthrightness and honesty in reporting the facts can stand as an
example that others would do well to emulate. You did well, despite
the serious challenges. Be proud.
Caveat
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Posted by Kate Dicey on August 25, 2005, 7:12 pm
Caveat wrote:
>
>
>> ... Our trip turned out to be more brutal than we could have possibly
>>planned on. In some areas we were hiking on disintigrating shale
>>walls with sheer cliff drop offs....
> In summary, I admire your courage in tackling this very challenging
> hike, but was sad to hear that the weather monster got you. But your
> forthrightness and honesty in reporting the facts can stand as an
> example that others would do well to emulate. You did well, despite
> the serious challenges. Be proud.
>
>
> Caveat
>
>
>
>
You sum up more or less what I felt, reading the story. Here in the UK
we have some very serious hill and mountain country. Every year people
get lost and lose their lives. Many of them do so because they simply
do not think that mountains less than 5,000 feet high are 'serious'.
Others do so because of circumstances beyond their control. We are very
glad that Joy and her family made it back safely, despite difficulties
and dangers, and partly due to help she found along the way. Over many
years of mixing with walkers and the mountain addicted (hubby being
one!), I have come to see they are much like quilters, for the main:
generous of time and spirit, and willing to help whenever they can.
We never pass a Mountain Rescue collection box without paying our dues.
Stay with us and learn to quilt! Friendship star sleeping bags, anyone?
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
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Posted by Caveat on August 26, 2005, 10:23 am
>You sum up more or less what I felt, reading the story. Here in the UK
>we have some very serious hill and mountain country. Every year people
>get lost and lose their lives. Many of them do so because they simply
>do not think that mountains less than 5,000 feet high are 'serious'.
Weather can make all the difference in any terrain, as you know, Kate.
One of the regulars in the newsgroup I called *home* for many years is
one of your countrymen, who now lives in Scotland. He has written
close to 20 books on hiking in various places, including here. His
name is Chris Townsend; perhaps you or your hubby have heard of him.
>Others do so because of circumstances beyond their control. We are very
>glad that Joy and her family made it back safely, despite difficulties
>and dangers, and partly due to help she found along the way. Over many
>years of mixing with walkers and the mountain addicted (hubby being
>one!), I have come to see they are much like quilters, for the main:
>generous of time and spirit, and willing to help whenever they can.
It's also like that in backcountry areas here -- although there isn't
much generosity of spirit visible in the related newsgroups on Usenet.
Too bad, because people are likely to get a very poor impression of
hikers and mountaineers (primarily Yanks) by reading their rantings.
Most of the nice hikers don't post to those groups.
>We never pass a Mountain Rescue collection box without paying our dues.
Many SAR people here are volunteers and don't seek contributions.
However, if you would like to send me some money ... <BG>
>Stay with us and learn to quilt! Friendship star sleeping bags, anyone?
I learned to sew-on buttons in the Army 50 years ago, but needles in
my hands are like lethal weapons. My wife has done some quilting in
the past, and enjoyed it very much. Thanks for the invitation, though.
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Posted by Kate Dicey on August 27, 2005, 4:57 am
Caveat wrote:
>
>
>>You sum up more or less what I felt, reading the story. Here in the UK
>>we have some very serious hill and mountain country. Every year people
>>get lost and lose their lives. Many of them do so because they simply
>>do not think that mountains less than 5,000 feet high are 'serious'.
>
>
> Weather can make all the difference in any terrain, as you know, Kate.
Hah! Tell me... At one time I lived in Lincolnshire. Where we lived
was five feet below sea level. There we used to get fog so thick you
could dance on it! And that was on the ground floor. Upstairs it could
be brilliant sunshine! You'd look out the windows and swaer the world
was ten feet deep in milk! People regularly got lost in that.
> One of the regulars in the newsgroup I called *home* for many years is
> one of your countrymen, who now lives in Scotland. He has written
> close to 20 books on hiking in various places, including here. His
> name is Chris Townsend; perhaps you or your hubby have heard of him.
Oh yes. Dunno if we have any of his books.
>
>
>>Others do so because of circumstances beyond their control. We are very
>>glad that Joy and her family made it back safely, despite difficulties
>>and dangers, and partly due to help she found along the way. Over many
>>years of mixing with walkers and the mountain addicted (hubby being
>>one!), I have come to see they are much like quilters, for the main:
>>generous of time and spirit, and willing to help whenever they can.
>
>
> It's also like that in backcountry areas here -- although there isn't
> much generosity of spirit visible in the related newsgroups on Usenet.
> Too bad, because people are likely to get a very poor impression of
> hikers and mountaineers (primarily Yanks) by reading their rantings.
> Most of the nice hikers don't post to those groups.
Can't remember which walking groups DH reads and posts on. You can see
the results of a few of his exploits on his half of our web site
>
>
>>We never pass a Mountain Rescue collection box without paying our dues.
>
>
> Many SAR people here are volunteers and don't seek contributions.
> However, if you would like to send me some money ... <BG>
Hehehe! We had a discussion either here or on the quilting group about
how our resue services are organised a few weeks back. Our Mountain
Rescue are also all volunteers, and all their training and equipment is
paid for by public donation.
>
>>Stay with us and learn to quilt! Friendship star sleeping bags, anyone?
>
>
> I learned to sew-on buttons in the Army 50 years ago, but needles in
> my hands are like lethal weapons. My wife has done some quilting in
> the past, and enjoyed it very much. Thanks for the invitation, though.
>
>
We have taught the most inept to sew before now! And we have a few good
gear sewers here on this group. I've made stuff for DH before now, like
Windbloc jackest (£30 for fabric and zips as opposed to £250 for a
jacket from Field & Trek!). Next project fopr us both in that line is
new Windbloc jackets, as I lost 59lbs and shrank out of mine, and the
last one I made for DH is not true Windblock and is a little stiff and
bulky. Makes a good general purpose winter coat, though.
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
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Posted by Caveat on August 27, 2005, 10:51 am
>> Weather can make all the difference in any terrain, as you know, Kate.
>Hah! Tell me... At one time I lived in Lincolnshire. Where we lived
>was five feet below sea level. There we used to get fog so thick you
>could dance on it! And that was on the ground floor. Upstairs it could
>be brilliant sunshine! You'd look out the windows and swaer the world
>was ten feet deep in milk! People regularly got lost in that.
Sounds just lovely, Kate. That 'is probably why we didn't get farther
north than London when we were there. Although I love the UK and the
Brits (my forebears are from there) the famously filthy weather is
just too much for us desert rats to endure. Instead. last summer, we
opted for six weeks in the Alps. The weather was quite nice there.
>> One of the regulars in the newsgroup I called *home* for many years is
>> one of your countrymen, who now lives in Scotland. He has written
>> close to 20 books on hiking in various places, including here. His
>> name is Chris Townsend; perhaps you or your hubby have heard of him.
>Oh yes. Dunno if we have any of his books...
Chris has written (eloquently, I would add) The Guide to Hillwalking,
Classic Hill Walks, The Munros & Tops, Ramblers Guide to Ben Nevis
and Glen Coe, among many others. He's a nice guy to chat with, but
seems to have been avoiding the backcountry and hiking groups
(probably because the level of discourse has deteriorated to the
vicious attack level, among other reasons -- like being out walking in
the hills maybe).
>Can't remember which walking groups DH reads and posts on. You can see
>the results of a few of his exploits on his half of our web site...
Ah yes, nice pictures that Alan has taken. I guess the ones in the fog
soup didn't turn out :-). One day I hope to make it up there to look
around a bit. But getting beyond Piccadilly takes some concentration.
(Now I know where the word peccadillo comes from...)
>We have taught the most inept to sew before now! And we have a few good
>gear sewers here on this group. I've made stuff for DH before now, like
>Windbloc jackest (£30 for fabric and zips as opposed to £250 for a
>jacket from Field & Trek!). Next project fopr us both in that line is
>new Windbloc jackets..
I'm impressed with your (and Joy's) efforts at making outdoor gear. My
DW made down-filled tundra jackets from Frostline kits when we lives
in the Sierra Nevada for five years. Very functional end result, but
stuffing those down pockets was sure messy! I look like the Michelin
tire mascot in mine. But at 110 degrees F (45 degrees C) we don't get
to wear them much anymore <sniffle>. Oh well, clothing oneself in the
climate here in Phoenix is quick, easy, and inexpensive. Good thing
those for us who are shockingly inept with sewing needles , eh?
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