Re: OT: GC trip/gear report (long)

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Re: OT: GC trip/gear report (long) Caveat 08-25-2005
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Posted by Kate Dicey on August 27, 2005, 11:53 pm
Caveat wrote:
>
>
>>>Weather can make all the difference in any terrain, as you know, Kate.
>
>
>>Hah! Tell me... At one time I lived in Lincolnshire. Where we lived
>>was five feet below sea level. There we used to get fog so thick you
>>could dance on it! And that was on the ground floor. Upstairs it could
>>be brilliant sunshine! You'd look out the windows and swaer the world
>>was ten feet deep in milk! People regularly got lost in that.
>
>
> Sounds just lovely, Kate. That 'is probably why we didn't get farther
> north than London when we were there. Although I love the UK and the
> Brits (my forebears are from there) the famously filthy weather is
> just too much for us desert rats to endure. Instead. last summer, we
> opted for six weeks in the Alps. The weather was quite nice there.

We have FABULOUS weather here in the UK. I have got sunburned in
Glencoe, North Wales, and Skye, as well as in Lincolnshire and down here
in Kent. It just cannot be relied on happening when you need it! The
only time I made it to anywhere close to the Alps, (we went to Zurich
for lunch), it chucked warm rain at us all day!
>
>
>>>One of the regulars in the newsgroup I called *home* for many years is
>>>one of your countrymen, who now lives in Scotland. He has written
>>>close to 20 books on hiking in various places, including here. His
>>>name is Chris Townsend; perhaps you or your hubby have heard of him.
>
>
>>Oh yes. Dunno if we have any of his books...
>
>
> Chris has written (eloquently, I would add) The Guide to Hillwalking,
> Classic Hill Walks, The Munros & Tops, Ramblers Guide to Ben Nevis
> and Glen Coe, among many others. He's a nice guy to chat with, but
> seems to have been avoiding the backcountry and hiking groups
> (probably because the level of discourse has deteriorated to the
> vicious attack level, among other reasons -- like being out walking in
> the hills maybe).

DH has stuff like a complete set of Wainrights, Poucher's The Scottish
Peaks, something by Hamish Brown, and that absolute classic, Gwen
Moffat's Space Below My feet, which is a seriously good read, and also
very well written, among others.
>
>
>>Can't remember which walking groups DH reads and posts on. You can see
>>the results of a few of his exploits on his half of our web site...
>
>
> Ah yes, nice pictures that Alan has taken. I guess the ones in the fog
> soup didn't turn out :-). One day I hope to make it up there to look
> around a bit. But getting beyond Piccadilly takes some concentration.
> (Now I know where the word peccadillo comes from...)

Fog soup was from my childhood. Lincolnshire is a nice place to grow
RAF bases! But my parents were from Fife and Edinbrough, and I met DH
in Durham (he's from Sunderland. My first real mountain exploits were
in the Lake district and Glencoe. I do very little these days: the
fibromyalgia has taken its toll. When not full of feverish cold and a
nice sinus infection, I exercise by swimming three times a week.
>
>
>>We have taught the most inept to sew before now! And we have a few good
>>gear sewers here on this group. I've made stuff for DH before now, like
>>Windbloc jackest (£30 for fabric and zips as opposed to £250 for a
>>jacket from Field & Trek!). Next project fopr us both in that line is
>>new Windbloc jackets..
>
>
> I'm impressed with your (and Joy's) efforts at making outdoor gear. My
> DW made down-filled tundra jackets from Frostline kits when we lives
> in the Sierra Nevada for five years. Very functional end result, but
> stuffing those down pockets was sure messy! I look like the Michelin
> tire mascot in mine.

Hehehehehe!! BIL and my younger sister have just come back from a lovely
holiday in Canada. He bought her a Helly Hanson ski jacket out there.
I don't do down: mess and the feathers make me itch!

> But at 110 degrees F (45 degrees C) we don't get
> to wear them much anymore <sniffle>. Oh well, clothing oneself in the
> climate here in Phoenix is quick, easy, and inexpensive. Good thing
> those for us who are shockingly inept with sewing needles , eh?

T shirts, shorts, and Teva sandals! Mind you, I hear the desert gets
cold at night. And personalized/custom walking shorts can be good to
make. Now that Rohan don't make theirs as short as DH likes for summer
walking, and only in boring colours, I could be skimming a pattern and
looking up some nice bright ones for him.

Next Windbloc jacket I do I want to do a diary of for the web site, like
my wedding and costume diaries.
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Posted by Pogonip on August 28, 2005, 12:06 am
Kate Dicey wrote:
> We have FABULOUS weather here in the UK. I have got sunburned in
> Glencoe, North Wales, and Skye, as well as in Lincolnshire and down here
> in Kent. It just cannot be relied on happening when you need it! The
> only time I made it to anywhere close to the Alps, (we went to Zurich
> for lunch), it chucked warm rain at us all day!
>

I spent a week in Death Valley about 35 years ago, and it was cool to
chilly and lightly raining the whole time. I have been careful not to
go back. My memories of Death Valley are of that cool, rainy place. ;-)

--
Joanne
stitches @ singerlady.reno.nv.us.earth

Posted by Caveat on August 28, 2005, 11:22 am

>I spent a week in Death Valley about 35 years ago, and it was cool to
>chilly and lightly raining the whole time. I have been careful not to
>go back. My memories of Death Valley are of that cool, rainy place. ;-)

Yes, real deserts are very different places than most people imagine.
The definition refers to the scant precipitation (which can fall in a
short period), and not to the temperatures. As I noted to Kate,
deserts can be very cold places. In fact some of the biggest deserts
are up by the Arctic Circle. But I, too, have been rained-upon in
Death Valley which -- like the Grand Canyon -- has huge flash floods.

And there are vast differences between adjacent deserts. I just drove
through Reno (nice new under-construction freeways!) and down Hwy 395,
then over the White Mountains, then down to Las Vegas (camped at the
8600' elevation 30 minutes from the city) and into Arizona. This route
crosses the Mojave Desert (brown hills) into the Sonoran Desert (very
green and lush). Arizona is really well-watered this time of year due
to the monsoon rains that come from up Mexico each summer.

Southeast of Phoenix, heading towards Mexico, one goes *up* in
elevation -- which yields cooler temperatures as well as more rain.
And up in the 7,000 -10,000 foot elevation mountain islands in
southern Arizona, you'd better bring warm clothes even in August. Most
people don't realize that Arizona is really a very mountainous place.


Posted by Caveat on August 28, 2005, 11:00 am

[...]
>> I'm impressed with your (and Joy's) efforts at making outdoor gear. My
>> DW made down-filled tundra jackets from Frostline kits when we lives
>> in the Sierra Nevada for five years. Very functional end result, but
>> stuffing those down pockets was sure messy! I look like the Michelin
>> tire mascot in mine.
>
>Hehehehehe!! BIL and my younger sister have just come back from a lovely
>holiday in Canada. He bought her a Helly Hanson ski jacket out there.
>I don't do down: mess and the feathers make me itch!

DW's problem with making the down jackets was that a large percentage
of the stuff went into the air rather than into the jacket. It was
months before we got the down off everything in the house.

If your BIL and sister's trip was to the Rockies in Canada, then they
saw some spectacular country. We spent a summer backpacking in the
national parks there. For rainwear, we've always preferred Gore-tex
material. I was a field tester for REI when that material was first
put into rainwear. Leaked like a sieve until they went to taped seams.

>> ...Oh well, clothing oneself in the
>> climate here in Phoenix is quick, easy, and inexpensive. Good thing
>> those for us who are shockingly inept with sewing needles , eh?

>T shirts, shorts, and Teva sandals!

Exactly, although we now prefer Chaco sandals which are made in
Colorado. You can tell what brand of sandals the locals wear by
looking at the suntan pattern on their feet.

>Mind you, I hear the desert gets cold at night.

Yes temperatures in the open desert will drop 30 to 40 degrees F
overnight (or within minutes when a monsoon thunderstorm rolls in).
During the winter months it gets below freezing most every night out
there -- which has come as quite a surprise to visiting backpackers.
That doesn't happen here in the metro Phoenix area, however, because
of the heat island effect -- all the tarmac holds the heat overnight
so that it rarely freezes at night during winter.

>And personalized/custom walking shorts can be good to
>make. Now that Rohan don't make theirs as short as DH likes for summer
>walking, and only in boring colours, I could be skimming a pattern and
>looking up some nice bright ones for him.

I still have a half dozen of the old shorter hiking shorts which I,
too, prefer to the newer trendy longer models. Sexier, too.

>Next Windbloc jacket I do I want to do a diary of for the web site, like
>my wedding and costume diaries.

Speaking of your web site, I was delighted to find your recipe for
troll soup. I would modify it a bit to include a dash of arsenic, but
that's just my preference. ;-o


Posted by Joy Hardie on September 10, 2005, 8:17 am
It was so good to hear kind words from you Caveat after so long. And,
since our "plans" were taken off course, we were not able to hike
Paria canyon as you had also suggested. So....as you can likely
guess...my mind is already wandering to going back and "getting it."
I love the canyon lands and have re-walked every step trying to figure
how we could have done things better. And you just gave us the answer
here......an answer the Park Ranger should have told us when we
checked in just hours before heading over the edge.......that it had
been raining for 6 days and that parts of the trail had washed away!!!
Caveat....you know as well as I that I planned for years for that
trip and I was going to ride out whatever criticism I got........and
still will. Because, the only answer is and still can be, we prepared
in every way possible for 2 years, we had a back-up plan (I was
holding reservations for cabins on the rim and loding at Phantom Ranch
with stew & steak dinners etc on the main trails),........but we got
the "GO" sign from the Park Rangers and "Have a nice trip."
So, sometimes in life you just can't know what's on the path ahead
until you get there. And when you do .... and there is no going
back... you realize you have to be brave enough to go forward. That
was the scary part. Everyone faces that in some way or other in life
I think. It's just hard to be the one leading your kids down that
trecherous path .
The kids think I took them on a great adventure. They wouldn't do
it again.
Joy

>Hi Joy,
>
>We just got back from two months of backcountry adventures in the
>Northwest (that's where many of us *Zonies* go when the temperatures
>break 110 degrees here) and found your epic adventure account in the
>alt.rec.hiking group. Sorry for the late reply. Also, my apologies to
>this group for the intrusion -- but you probably don't read that other
>group any more (for which you could not be blamed).
>
>Don't be so tough on yourself about the problems that you encountered
>in the Grand Canyon. Two words can sum-up the reasons for your
>difficulties: monsoon weather. Your trip was scheduled during the
>summer monsoon rain season (you probably had no other choice) and
>hiking in Arizona canyon country during this period can be challenging
>to say the least. The eight-year drought with annual minimal rain came
>to a sudden end this year and the results were pretty dramatic.
>
>In loose sandstone country -- especially in deep canyons like the
>Grand Canyon -- persistent rains quickly flow downhill and scour the
>canyons. The run-offs erase trails and render creek crossings
>impassable. There is no way to predict those in advance, of course,
>and once the ground is saturated, rain quickly turns into walls of
>water that race down those canyons with little warning. And they can
>get big: one wiped out much of the North Kaibab Trail some years back,
>washed away bridges, and destroyed portions of the water line that
>supplies the South Rim. That major trail was closed for a long time.
>
>Those of us who have been backcountry travelers for very long have
>come to understand the perils that weather can present. I've been
>caught in a few flash floods myself over the years. Bad weather in
>these places can turn a nice hike into a life-and-death struggle for
>survival. It's part of the outdoor world and isn't anyone's fault.
>
>The Park Ranger who told you that "there is nothing wrong with that
>hike" four months before you got there was correct. Hundreds of people
>do that trip each summer without any problems. The trails are normally
>obvious and easily followed, and the crossings of Tapeats Creek is
>usually in just a few inches of water. But due to six days of rain in
>the area, what you found was washed-out trails that were no longer
>obvious, trail damage that then required dicey traverses in very steep
>terrain, and flooded canyons with too much water to cross streams.
>
>The good news is that you all made it out despite the numerous
>unexpected dangers. On that route, there are usually people around to
>help when you need it. In such conditions, everyone pitches in to get
>everyone else out of there without serious injury and/or an expensive
>helicopter extraction (there are a lot of those in the Canyon each
>year). There are much worse outcomes in the Canyon very routinely,
>even under perfect conditions. Having worked Search and Rescue for
>many years, I've seen my share of those. It comes with the terrain.
>
>Thanks also for the kind words about my help in the planning stages,
>in the hiking group postings. Unfortunately, there are always the
>opinionated Monday-morning-quarterbacks in that newsgroup who will
>jump at the chance to belittle anyone and unfairly cast blame in an
>effort to make themselves feel important. The positive contributions
>those same people have made the group over time is typically nil. And
>I was more than a little disturbed at the rudeness they showed you in
>that thread. Personally, I don't plan to ever post again there. When
>the trolls take over, and civility deteriorates that badly, there's no
>reason to stay. The backcountry group is much the same now.
>
>In summary, I admire your courage in tackling this very challenging
>hike, but was sad to hear that the weather monster got you. But your
>forthrightness and honesty in reporting the facts can stand as an
>example that others would do well to emulate. You did well, despite
>the serious challenges. Be proud.
>
>
>Caveat
>
>
>


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