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Posted by me on August 9, 2007, 8:35 pm
Interesting hypothesis.. I can see how it could be done, and I suppose
that there are some sellers on eBay who are cut-throat enough to try
it....
Personally, I buy on eBay all the time, including TOL
sewing/embroidery machines.. In my opinion, you have to be careful,
and follow the simple rules that sewfine explained previously.. Yes,
there are some real stinkers who are engaging in fraud on eBay, but
they are not the majority of eBay users. I would not have my
embroidery machine if it was not for eBay, as I consider it a
luxury-luxury, and the senior level machines are simply more money
than I am willing to spend brand new.
When I get another embroidery machine (upgrade), it will most likely
be on eBay for the same reason.
me
wrote:
show/hide quoted text
>That's solid reasoning, Olwyn Mary. But what if Jan is a competitor?
>What if he/she comes here and lists only auctions of other sellers,
>making sure that those of us who feel this way will not be bidding on
>those listings? These little notes are showing up in a lot of the
>groups on my subscription list, and must be reaching a fair number of
>people who sew, have sewing machines, and might be in the market for
>additional machines. Nifty way to cut down on a competitor's pool of
>potential bidders.
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Posted by Pogonip on August 9, 2007, 10:09 pm
me wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> Interesting hypothesis.. I can see how it could be done, and I suppose
> that there are some sellers on eBay who are cut-throat enough to try
> it....
>
> Personally, I buy on eBay all the time, including TOL
> sewing/embroidery machines.. In my opinion, you have to be careful,
> and follow the simple rules that sewfine explained previously.. Yes,
> there are some real stinkers who are engaging in fraud on eBay, but
> they are not the majority of eBay users. I would not have my
> embroidery machine if it was not for eBay, as I consider it a
> luxury-luxury, and the senior level machines are simply more money
> than I am willing to spend brand new.
>
> When I get another embroidery machine (upgrade), it will most likely
> be on eBay for the same reason.
>
> me
I have to agree with you. eBay is nothing more than individuals (and
companies) listing and selling direct to the buyer. If you exercise
caution, and I recommend using Paypal and funding the payment with a
credit card, you can do very well. One of my embroidery machines came
from eBay - I got a really great deal, and the seller got rid of a
system she had outgrown and got some cash in return. A win-win
situation. I have been selling and buying on eBay since 1996, and I
think it's absolutely great.
--
Joanne
stitches @ singerlady.reno.nv.us.earth.milky-way.com
http://members.tripod.com/~bernardschopen/
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Posted by Phaedrine on July 31, 2007, 11:17 am
show/hide quoted text
> ... you stated:
> > A buyer should only trust the word of an
> > independent, credible third party as to the status of the machine,
> > preferably an authorized Bernina technician who has no vested interest
> > in the sale outcome or a Bernina dealer who is offering a warranty.
>
> Okay, so where are we supposed to find this neutral authorized Bernina
> technician who has no vested interest in the transaction?
Better the question: Why on earth would any sane person with an ounce
of grey matter buy a _used_ machine, that is a relatively new model that
retails for a minimum of $8000, from a total stranger on the internet
w/o any guarantee or certification as to the machine's status? Come
on... we're not talking about a $100 item here. The issue here is a
Bernina 200e/730--- not a Singer "Simple". It is an ethical seller's
responsibility to furnish such an honest report. It's done all the time
in the art world and other venues. And it's done on eBay too by ethical
sellers. EBay need not be a total crap shoot.
show/hide quoted text
<large snip>
--
I fear me you but warm the starved snake
Who, cherished in your breasts, will sting your hearts. (Henry VI,Shakespeare)
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Posted by Pogonip on July 30, 2007, 1:49 pm
sewfine wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> Yes, it's unfortunate but true that Berninas and other high end sewing
> machines are frequent fraud items on eBay. However, the auction
> Phaedrine referenced appears to be legitimate. Yes, Bernina says only
> the tech is supposed to be able to see how many hours are on the
> machine, but everyone who belongs to any of the several online list
> groups for Bernina owners knows you just have to hold down the Clear
> button while you turn on the machine to see the number of sewing and
> embroidery hours on the machines. But there are a lot of terrific,
> honest sellers on eBay selling great machines at substantial savings
> over new machines and it would be a shame for people to lose out on
> those great deals out of fear, Here are some tips on how to buy a
> great used machine on eBay, and how NOT to be a victim of fraud:
>
> 1. Avoid short 1-day and 3-day auctions; they are often scams (thieves
> steal the user ID and password of real eBay sellers and post a
> fraudulent auction for an item they don't even have, using stolen
> photos and text from a closed auction. They do the short auction
> because they are hoping someone will fall for their scam quickly,
> before the seller whose ID they have stolen discovers the listing and
> reports it to eBay. Real sellers want as many potential buyers to see
> their auction as possible, so legitimate auctions will usually run 7
> or 10 days.
> 2. When an auction description says "Contact me at my private email
> address for a buy it now price," RUN RUN RUN!! Again, this is a
> warning sign that the seller's ID has been hijacked, because if you
> use the "ask seller a question" feature through eBay it would send an
> email to the REAL person who is registered with ebay, not to the thief
> who wants to steal your money.
> 3. Don't send anyone money through Western Union, because you have no
> recourse that way if no machine is ever shipped to you. Instead, pay
> with PayPal -- it's free to buyers, it gives you built in fraud
> protection through eBay and through PayPal, and if you pay with your
> credit card through PayPal you have additional protection through your
> credit card company in the event you get suckered into a scam -- they
> will reverse the charge back to you and you will not be out any money
> (AmEx is especially great with that).
> 4. The best advice I could give ANYONE looking to buy a used machine
> on eBay is to get to know the seller by asking questions through the
> Ask Seller a Question feature. Ask why they are selling the machine,
> how many crazy quilting stitches does it have, how do you set it up
> for free motion quilting -- whatever you can think of, but SOMETHING
> that a crook in an internet cafe in Eastern Europe somewhere will not
> be able to answer, but that an honest, real sewer would know about her
> machine.
>
> I have bought AND sold several high end sewing machines on eBay, and I
> wouldn't be able to afford all of the fancy toys I have in my sewing
> room if I had to buy them all brand new from the dealer, so I speak
> from experience that good deals are out there to be had -- you just
> have to watch out for those few rotten apples trying to spoil it for
> everyone else!
>
> Rebecca
>
Thanks Rebecca, this is very good advice. I know several people who
sell (and buy) machines on eBay, and it's still true that *most* people
are honest. The trouble is that the few who aren't make such an
impression that people tend to forget about the good ones.
Your description of taken over accounts is excellent, I would just add
that sometimes they are also able to take over the email account of the
real eBayer. It's so important to have different passwords for
different accounts.
For eBay, I pay *only* with Paypal, and fund the payment with a credit
card. As you say, that gives maximum security - either Paypal or my
credit card company will protect me from loss.
But using your head is also good. As usual. ;-) If a deal is too good
to be true, then it most likely is.
I know that Phaedrine wants to be helpful here, but some of the biggest
crooks I've run into have been sewing machine dealers. There's a few in
every pot, I guess.
--
Joanne
stitches @ singerlady.reno.nv.us.earth.milky-way.com
http://members.tripod.com/~bernardschopen/
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Posted by Taria on July 30, 2007, 2:27 pm
I wouldn't buy anything from this particular seller. The usenet rules
are no ads. This seller has continually disregarded the rules. They
don't mean anything to her. So why would you buy something from someone
that thinks rules aren't for them? Too many really good sellers around
to put up with the attitude IMO. Buyer beware. I'd say buyer stay
away in this case. I buy a lot of stuff on Ebay and steering clear
of this type a buyer has worked pretty well.
sewfine wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> Yes, it's unfortunate but true that Berninas and other high end sewing
> machines are frequent fraud items on eBay. However, the auction
> Phaedrine referenced appears to be legitimate. Yes, Bernina says only
> the tech is supposed to be able to see how many hours are on the
> machine, but everyone who belongs to any of the several online list
> groups for Bernina owners knows you just have to hold down the Clear
> button while you turn on the machine to see the number of sewing and
> embroidery hours on the machines. But there are a lot of terrific,
> honest sellers on eBay selling great machines at substantial savings
> over new machines and it would be a shame for people to lose out on
> those great deals out of fear, Here are some tips on how to buy a
> great used machine on eBay, and how NOT to be a victim of fraud:
>
> 1. Avoid short 1-day and 3-day auctions; they are often scams (thieves
> steal the user ID and password of real eBay sellers and post a
> fraudulent auction for an item they don't even have, using stolen
> photos and text from a closed auction. They do the short auction
> because they are hoping someone will fall for their scam quickly,
> before the seller whose ID they have stolen discovers the listing and
> reports it to eBay. Real sellers want as many potential buyers to see
> their auction as possible, so legitimate auctions will usually run 7
> or 10 days.
> 2. When an auction description says "Contact me at my private email
> address for a buy it now price," RUN RUN RUN!! Again, this is a
> warning sign that the seller's ID has been hijacked, because if you
> use the "ask seller a question" feature through eBay it would send an
> email to the REAL person who is registered with ebay, not to the thief
> who wants to steal your money.
> 3. Don't send anyone money through Western Union, because you have no
> recourse that way if no machine is ever shipped to you. Instead, pay
> with PayPal -- it's free to buyers, it gives you built in fraud
> protection through eBay and through PayPal, and if you pay with your
> credit card through PayPal you have additional protection through your
> credit card company in the event you get suckered into a scam -- they
> will reverse the charge back to you and you will not be out any money
> (AmEx is especially great with that).
> 4. The best advice I could give ANYONE looking to buy a used machine
> on eBay is to get to know the seller by asking questions through the
> Ask Seller a Question feature. Ask why they are selling the machine,
> how many crazy quilting stitches does it have, how do you set it up
> for free motion quilting -- whatever you can think of, but SOMETHING
> that a crook in an internet cafe in Eastern Europe somewhere will not
> be able to answer, but that an honest, real sewer would know about her
> machine.
>
> I have bought AND sold several high end sewing machines on eBay, and I
> wouldn't be able to afford all of the fancy toys I have in my sewing
> room if I had to buy them all brand new from the dealer, so I speak
> from experience that good deals are out there to be had -- you just
> have to watch out for those few rotten apples trying to spoil it for
> everyone else!
>
> Rebecca
>
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>What if he/she comes here and lists only auctions of other sellers,
>making sure that those of us who feel this way will not be bidding on
>those listings? These little notes are showing up in a lot of the
>groups on my subscription list, and must be reaching a fair number of
>people who sew, have sewing machines, and might be in the market for
>additional machines. Nifty way to cut down on a competitor's pool of
>potential bidders.