Re: Thanks -- Bernina: Used 1530 vs new 220
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Re: Thanks -- Bernina: Used 1530 vs new 220 Leslie & The Furbabies in MO. 12-21-2007
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Posted by Leslie & The Furbabies in MO. on December 21, 2007, 12:22 pm
Oh boy! Trading in a used sewing machine is exactly like trading cars. The
machines drop in value a huge amount the first year or so. That's why a
nearly new used machine is such a great buy- it will usually still have some
warranty and be considerably cheaper than brand new- just like trading cars.
Also, like trading a car, there is that ridiculous numbers game- charge more
for what's being purchased so they can give the trade-in a greater value.
This includes the 'famous' statement "if you trade it in within a year we'll
give you what you paid for it". Ridiculous! It's still a used trade-in...
they cannot resell it as new for the same price as a new machine, can they?
There's no way they can legitimately give you what you paid for it and
remain in business very long.

If what you want to buy costs $2K at one dealer and your trade in is valued
at $1K- then you have to give the dealer $1K cash plus your trade in, right?
If what you want to buy at another dealer (same purchased machine as in the
previous example) is priced at $3K and they say your trade-in is worth $2K-
you STILL have to give the dealer your machine and $1K cash, right? So many
people think the second example is a 'better deal' cuz they are getting $2K
for their trade-in instead of *only* $1K. It's apples and oranges. All
that matters is how much cash you have to put with your trade-in.... NOT
what the trade-in value may be or even what the sale price on the purchase
may be. As long as what you are buying is comparable at both dealers it's
just a numbers game that means nothing. If you don't have a trade-in it's
cut and dried- what you pay in cash is what you pay at either dealer. It's
the trade-in that muddies it all up.

Leslie (worked in auto dealerships for a hundred years and saw this twenty
time a day), Missy & The Furbabies in MO.

> Thanks for all the good responses so far. I also liked the "heft" of
> the 1530 over the 210 and 230 they did have in the store. I hadn't
> thought about having to take it to classes and stuff though.
>
> I didn't set them side-by-side, but the harp (I'm guessing this is the
> round space to the right of the needle, for rolling up stuff and
> scrunching it through the machine) didn't look any bigger on the 1530
> than on the 210 (which should be identical, physically, to the sold-
> out 220).
>
> Does the 1530 have a larger harp? Some responses seem to imply it
> does.
>
> Also, Bev, I figured out RSI and FMQ but you lost me on BSR?
>
> It sounds as if she needs to mainly decide on whether or not she likes
> the track-ball interface, and if she likes it the 1530 is the better
> of these two machines. Thanks also for not mentioning actual prices,
> I'll have her look here and maybe follow up. I'm already pushing the
> budget at this level, and can't really go any higher right now. We
> were hoping the Bernina would hold it's value, and if she really gets
> into the quilting she can trade up later. I guess that's another
> reason I like the used machine over the plastic 220.
>
> Thanks again, and Merry Christmas



Posted by Sandy on December 21, 2007, 12:45 pm

> Oh boy! Trading in a used sewing machine is exactly like trading cars. The
> machines drop in value a huge amount the first year or so. That's why a
> nearly new used machine is such a great buy- it will usually still have some
> warranty and be considerably cheaper than brand new- just like trading cars.

Exactly.

> Also, like trading a car, there is that ridiculous numbers game- charge more
> for what's being purchased so they can give the trade-in a greater value.
> This includes the 'famous' statement "if you trade it in within a year we'll
> give you what you paid for it". Ridiculous! It's still a used trade-in...
> they cannot resell it as new for the same price as a new machine, can they?
> There's no way they can legitimately give you what you paid for it and
> remain in business very long.


Actually, Leslie, the trade-up policy is a fact at most Bernina places.
I took advantage of it a couple of years ago. I'd bought my 440 in
March, and by November decided I wanted the 630. My dealer gave me
exactly what I'd paid for the 440 in credit toward the 630. My quilting
buddy in Phoenix did the same thing at her Bernina dealership -- no
problem at all trading up and getting full credit, as long as it was
within the first year. :)

--
Sandy in Henderson, near Las Vegas
sw.foster1 (at) gmail (dot) com (remove/change the obvious)
http://www.sandymike.net

Posted by Leslie & The Furbabies in MO. on December 21, 2007, 1:55 pm
But, Sandy, think about it. Your trade-in is now an almost 1 yr. old USED
machine. They cannot possibly resell your trade-in for the same price you
paid for it. There HAS to be a HUGE built in profit margin on the new
machine that is traded for to offset the 'loss' in selling your trade-in at
much lower price than a brand new machine just like it.

Say you bought your machine for $3K. Then you traded it in on a sm that
sells for $5K within the year allowed for trading at full purchase price-
you would turn in your machine plus $2K cash to buy the $5K new sm, right?
They cannot possibly sell your trade-in for that $3K- what it sold for new.
Somewhere they must take the loss on your trade-in.... they'll prolly sell
it used for $2K. Where is that difference between the $3K (full purchase
price) that they allowed you towards the new machine and the $2K they can
resell your trade-in for? They certainly cannot take a $1K loss on every
trade-in. It's called an 'over-allowance' in the auto business and that is
deducted off the profit on the new one sold. And you can't do that unless
you have a large profit margin to absorb that over-allowance/loss- of $1K in
this example.

I was horrified when buying the TOL Janome included a "free" $4K sewing
table. There must be at least a $3-5K built-in profit margin on the TOL sm
to 'give away' a sewing desk that they prolly pay $2K each to buy in
quantity to turn around and 'give' it away with the TOL sm. Their $3-5
built-in profit margin would be reduced by the $2K that Janome pays for the
'free' sewing desk- therefore, the dealer would 'only' make a profit of
$1-3K on the TOL sm- reduced by the cost of the desk- just the same as an
over-allowance on a trade-in.

Everybody has to make a profit to stay in business. There's no free ride.
Wish there was.....

Leslie, The Former Accountant, Missy & The Furbabies in MO.
>
>> Oh boy! Trading in a used sewing machine is exactly like trading cars.
>> The
>> machines drop in value a huge amount the first year or so. That's why a
>> nearly new used machine is such a great buy- it will usually still have
>> some
>> warranty and be considerably cheaper than brand new- just like trading
>> cars.
>
> Exactly.
>
>> Also, like trading a car, there is that ridiculous numbers game- charge
>> more
>> for what's being purchased so they can give the trade-in a greater value.
>> This includes the 'famous' statement "if you trade it in within a year
>> we'll
>> give you what you paid for it". Ridiculous! It's still a used
>> trade-in...
>> they cannot resell it as new for the same price as a new machine, can
>> they?
>> There's no way they can legitimately give you what you paid for it and
>> remain in business very long.
>
>
> Actually, Leslie, the trade-up policy is a fact at most Bernina places.
> I took advantage of it a couple of years ago. I'd bought my 440 in
> March, and by November decided I wanted the 630. My dealer gave me
> exactly what I'd paid for the 440 in credit toward the 630. My quilting
> buddy in Phoenix did the same thing at her Bernina dealership -- no
> problem at all trading up and getting full credit, as long as it was
> within the first year. :)
>
> --
> Sandy in Henderson, near Las Vegas
> sw.foster1 (at) gmail (dot) com (remove/change the obvious)
> http://www.sandymike.net



Posted by Sandy on December 21, 2007, 3:40 pm

> But, Sandy, think about it. Your trade-in is now an almost 1 yr. old USED
> machine. They cannot possibly resell your trade-in for the same price you
> paid for it. There HAS to be a HUGE built in profit margin on the new
> machine that is traded for to offset the 'loss' in selling your trade-in at
> much lower price than a brand new machine just like it.

I'm absolutely sure you're right, Leslie. But I'm going to have to pay
that original price, no matter what, unless I buy a used machine. When I
was buying, there were no used ones in the model I wanted, so .... At
least I *did* get all of my original purchase price towards the newer
one -- some companies have a huge mark-up and then don't give a
full-price trade in. I figure it was worth it, in my case. :)

>
> Say you bought your machine for $3K. Then you traded it in on a sm that
> sells for $5K within the year allowed for trading at full purchase price-
> you would turn in your machine plus $2K cash to buy the $5K new sm, right?
> They cannot possibly sell your trade-in for that $3K- what it sold for new.
> Somewhere they must take the loss on your trade-in.... they'll prolly sell
> it used for $2K. Where is that difference between the $3K (full purchase
> price) that they allowed you towards the new machine and the $2K they can
> resell your trade-in for? They certainly cannot take a $1K loss on every
> trade-in. It's called an 'over-allowance' in the auto business and that is
> deducted off the profit on the new one sold. And you can't do that unless
> you have a large profit margin to absorb that over-allowance/loss- of $1K in
> this example.
>
> I was horrified when buying the TOL Janome included a "free" $4K sewing
> table. There must be at least a $3-5K built-in profit margin on the TOL sm
> to 'give away' a sewing desk that they prolly pay $2K each to buy in
> quantity to turn around and 'give' it away with the TOL sm. Their $3-5
> built-in profit margin would be reduced by the $2K that Janome pays for the
> 'free' sewing desk- therefore, the dealer would 'only' make a profit of
> $1-3K on the TOL sm- reduced by the cost of the desk- just the same as an
> over-allowance on a trade-in.
>
> Everybody has to make a profit to stay in business. There's no free ride.
> Wish there was.....
>
> Leslie, The Former Accountant, Missy & The Furbabies in MO.




--
Sandy in Henderson, near Las Vegas
sw.foster1 (at) gmail (dot) com (remove/change the obvious)
http://www.sandymike.net

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