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Posted by Bernadette on May 21, 2008, 7:05 pm
On Wed, 21 May 2008 14:08:54 -0700, mirjam wrote:
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>> On Wed, 21 May 2008 17:59:28 +0000, Chris Underwood wrote:
>> > Now I remember why I quit reading this newsgroup for a few years...
>> That doesn't surprise me at all Chris and is something I considered the
>> last time this sort of nonsense started. How on earth we expect to have
>> any kind of peace elsewhere when we can't even have it on a small sewing
>> group is beyond me!
>> It seems as though the word tolerance is meaningless. --
>> Bernadette
>
> Bernadette as you know i enjoy writing and sharing many knitting
> crocheting weaving and art things,
I know this Mirjam and have learned a lot from you. I know you also love
to share the everyday things that make life interesting and joyful.
show/hide quoted text
> This doesn`t mean that any person has the right to say racial/ or
> religious things about me,
To my way of thinking no one person has the right to make judgements
about another. You did not but others on this group did and I find that
disgraceful!
show/hide quoted text
> i didn`t start jumping on that person , she does
and i try to avoid it
show/hide quoted text
> ,, but there are limits.
> mirjam
Mirjam, the situation between Israel/Palestine is so emotive that
anything which touches on it automatically pushes the temperature, and
tempers, higher. All I will say is that I have beloved friends who
are Jewish and other beloved friends who are Palestinian. Listening to
what they say enables me to have a little understanding of the Hell in
which many people are living.
Bernadette
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Posted by on May 21, 2008, 11:33 pm
Benadette good mortning our side good evening your side !!!
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> I know this Mirjam and have learned a lot from you. I know you also love
> to share the everyday things that make life interesting and joyful.
Thank you for understanding this. >
> To my way of thinking no one person has the right to make judgements
> about another. You did not but others on this group did and I find that
> disgraceful!
I agree , but when she/or others do so , you call it nonesense ? or
itolerance
My life experience told me that sometimes people who speak unkindly
should be answered back, other wise they think they can go on with
show/hide quoted text
it.... >
show/hide quoted text
> and i try to avoid it
> > ,, but there are limits.
> > mirjam
> Mirjam, the situation between Israel/Palestine is so emotive that
> anything which touches on it automatically pushes the temperature, and
Excuse me !!!!!!!!!
and what exactly does that mean ?, when talk about ARMORS that were
worn during the crusades , and a discussion about the method in which
they were made ???????
show/hide quoted text
> tempers, higher. All I will say is that I have beloved friends who
> are Jewish and other beloved friends who are Palestinian. Listening to
> what they say enables me to have a little understanding of the Hell in
> which many people are living.
I think the above text has NOTHING what so ever to do with the
discussions here !!!!
And i don`t think i live in any kind of hell , i think Life all over
the globe is complicated , but WHAT has that or any of the above TO DO
with unpolite jumping on some of my texts.
And bernadette i have beloved friends who are PEOPLE , i don`t define
them by their Religion or political nationality .
mirjam
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Posted by Bernadette on May 22, 2008, 5:09 am
On Wed, 21 May 2008 20:33:12 -0700, mirjam wrote:
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> Benadette good mortning our side good evening your side !!!
>
>
>
>> I know this Mirjam and have learned a lot from you. I know you also love
>> to share the everyday things that make life interesting and joyful.
>> To my way of thinking no one person has the right to make judgements
>> about another. You did not but others on this group did and I find that
>> disgraceful!
> I agree , but when she/or others do so , you call it nonesense ? or
> itolerance
> My life experience told me that sometimes people who speak unkindly should
>
>> and i try to avoid it
>> > ,, but there are limits.
>> > mirjam
>> Mirjam, the situation between Israel/Palestine is so emotive that
>> anything which touches on it automatically pushes the temperature, and
>
> Excuse me !!!!!!!!!
> and what exactly does that mean ?, when talk about ARMORS that were worn
> during the crusades , and a discussion about the method in which they were
> made ???????
What it means Mirjam is that this is not the first time this type of
nastiness has erupted on this board and each time it does it has NOTHING
to do with the subject under discussion.
This time it started from when you shared your happiness about your day of
celebration and has continued ever since, with others joining in since a
comment was made by Mary about it not being a day of celebration for
everyone. From what I have seen you really do not need others to join in
to defend you - you seem quite capable of doing that yourself)!
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>
>
>> tempers, higher. All I will say is that I have beloved friends who are
>> Jewish and other beloved friends who are Palestinian. Listening to what
>> they say enables me to have a little understanding of the Hell in which
>> many people are living.
> I think the above text has NOTHING what so ever to do with the
> discussions here !!!!
I agree and nor do any of the snide comments that have been thrown about
either.
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> And i don`t think i live in any kind of hell ,
I was not referring to you specifically Mirjam, I was referring to the
people I have spoken to and used some of their words regarding the
situation they are in AS THEY FEEL IT.
i think Life all
over the
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> globe is complicated , but WHAT has that or any of the above TO DO with
> unpolite jumping on some of my texts. And bernadette i have beloved
> friends who are PEOPLE ,
Indeed and so have I.
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>i don`t define them by their Religion or
> political nationality . mirjam
Nor do I Mirjam unless they have referred to them selves specifically in
that way and speak on these matters to make a point to me. The people to
whom I was referring had done that and I was sharing with you what they
had shared with me. If someone tells me that they are black, or Russian,
or Irish I do not try to take away their definition of them selves as it
obviously matters to them.
Bernadette
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Posted by on May 22, 2008, 6:53 am
Bernadette ,,,, this time i answer you from the Bottom of your
post ,,
Please look at the subject line
it says KNITTED {METAL] Armor ....thus were do you find
show/hide quoted text
> This time it started from when you shared your happiness about your day of
> celebration and has continued ever since, with others joining in since a
> comment was made by Mary about it not being a day of celebration for
> everyone. From what I have seen you really do not need others to join in
> to defend you - you seem quite capable of doing that yourself)!
I think it is perfectly ok to say something about MY HAPINESS about
OUR indepence day.
I don`t make comments like Mary`s, on any of YOUR Holidays
or her holidays, Nore do i comment on her Country`s political
behaviours.
But this post was about A KNITTED metal Armor. And when i told her
waht i knew , not insulting her on her different knowledge and or
experience, she went out of her way to be unkind.
Not to mention that after the former discussion , she wrote something
extremely unkind.
I have never asked anybody to deffend me. But i can thank those who
do .
Has it occured to you, that me and mykind became so capeable in
deffending ourselves , because there are so amny people who think it
is right to attack us.? Generations of persons who throw malice on us
have taught us to stand up and answer back. There us a Special
Sceintific name for Those kinds of words like that lady threw on
me ....
show/hide quoted text
> > Excuse me !!!!!!!!!
> > and what exactly does that mean ?, when talk about ARMORS that were worn
> > during the crusades , and a discussion about the method in which they were
> > made ???????
> What it means Mirjam is that this is not the first time this type of
> nastiness has erupted on this board and each time it does it has NOTHING
> to do with the subject under discussion.
Yes we agree , this is not the first time this type of nastiness has
erupted here, Why don`t you than tell THOSE who start it to
stop !!!!!
People share here loads of things and nobody thinks they should jump
on them for it with other unrelated remarks ,,,, Why do some people
think they have the right to jump on my posts, and criticise me and
mine.
show/hide quoted text
> This time it started from when you shared your happiness about your day of
> celebration and has continued ever since, with others joining in since a
> comment was made by Mary about it not being a day of celebration for
> everyone. From what I have seen you really do not need others to join in
> to defend you - you seem quite capable of doing that yourself)!
I have pasted this part above and answered it ,,,, and ps have you
show/hide quoted text
ever seen me make such remarks ???? >
show/hide quoted text
> > I think the above text has NOTHING what so ever to do with the
> > discussions here !!!!
> I agree and nor do any of the snide comments that have been thrown about
> either.
So what is your suggestion that i swallow every unkind remark ?
I do my best not to answer , but from time to time there are lines one
should not pass.
show/hide quoted text
> I was not referring to you specifically Mirjam, I was referring to the
> people I have spoken to and used some of their words regarding the
> situation they are in AS THEY FEEL IT.
Of course no , but since you said some of your beloved Jewish friends
feel they live in hell , i thought i may tell you , i don`t live in
hell. I don`t know aho your Jewish & Palestinian friends are nore
where they live , and i wish all a better life. And i hope that like
me they know that a better life to all can be achieved only by working
for it , not complaining about it .
show/hide quoted text
> Nor do I Mirjam unless they have referred to them selves specifically in
Sorry you took SPECIAL CARE to tell me you had beloved friends who are
both Palestinians and Jews who feel that their life is hard...
I on the other hand have many friends, who care and work, to make life
better for EVERY Human being.
show/hide quoted text
> that way and speak on these matters to make a point to me. The people to
> whom I was referring had done that and I was sharing with you what they
> had shared with me. If someone tells me that they are black, or Russian,
> or Irish I do not try to take away their definition of them selves as it
> obviously matters to them.
I will remember that the next time we have any discussion about this
that etc...
have a nice day /evening etc....
mirjam
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Posted by Bernadette on May 22, 2008, 7:36 am
On Thu, 22 May 2008 03:53:19 -0700, mirjam wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> Bernadette ,,,, this time i answer you from the Bottom of your post ,,
> Please look at the subject line
> it says KNITTED {METAL] Armor ....thus were do you find
>> This time it started from when you shared your happiness about your day
>> of celebration and has continued ever since, with others joining in
>> since a comment was made by Mary about it not being a day of celebration
>> for everyone. From what I have seen you really do not need others to
>> join in to defend you - you seem quite capable of doing that yourself)!
>
> I think it is perfectly ok to say something about MY HAPINESS about OUR
> indepence day.
I agree with you, in the same way that others who subscribe to this group
are wished a happy birthday or anniversary. We all have days that are
special to us and I believe it is good to share them.
show/hide quoted text
> I don`t make comments like
Mary`s, on any of YOUR Holidays or her
show/hide quoted text
> holidays, Nore do i comment on her Country`s political behaviours. But
> this post was about A KNITTED metal Armor. And when i told her waht i
> knew , not insulting her on her different knowledge and or experience,
> she went out of her way to be unkind. Not to mention that after the
> former discussion , she wrote something extremely unkind. I have never
> asked anybody to deffend me. But i can thank those who do .
Yes, and it is good to thank those who have supported you. I am just
saying that you are a strong enough person to not need that although
support from friends is always nice.
show/hide quoted text
Has it > occured to you, that me and mykind became so capeable in deffending
> ourselves , because there are so amny people who think it is right to
> attack us.? Generations of persons who throw malice on us have taught us
> to stand up and answer back. There us a Special Sceintific name for
> Those kinds of words like that lady threw on me ....
Of course it has Mirjam and I have some experience of malice. My parents
were immigrants into the UK back in the 1930s - something that was thrown
at us regularly! One particular neighbour always spat on the pavement just
in front of my feet while commenting, "dirty Irish". There were times I
wished I was bigger to be able to smack him hard - in the mouth!!!!! One
thing I have learned is that you can NEVER change another person's mind
for them. All you can do is try to ensure that you own remains open and
healthy - and that is no easy task at times.
show/hide quoted text
>
>> > Excuse me !!!!!!!!!
>> > and what exactly does that mean ?, when talk about ARMORS that were
>> > worn during the crusades , and a discussion about the method in which
>> > they were made ???????
>> What it means Mirjam is that this is not the first time this type of
>> nastiness has erupted on this board and each time it does it has
>> NOTHING to do with the subject under discussion.
> Yes we agree , this is not the first time this type of nastiness has
> erupted here, Why don`t you than tell THOSE who start it to stop !!!!!
> People share here loads of things and nobody thinks they should jump on
> them for it with other unrelated remarks ,,,, Why do some people think
> they have the right to jump on my posts, and criticise me and mine.
I do not know the answer to that.
show/hide quoted text
>> This time it started from when you shared your happiness about your day
>> of celebration and has continued ever since, with others joining in
>> since a comment was made by Mary about it not being a day of
>> celebration for everyone. From what I have seen you really do not need
>> others to join in to defend you - you seem quite capable of doing that
>> yourself)!
> I have pasted this part above and answered it ,,,, and ps have you ever
> seen me make such remarks ????
No, I have not.
show/hide quoted text
>
>> > I think the above text has NOTHING what so ever to do with the
>> > discussions here !!!!
>> I agree and nor do any of the snide comments that have been thrown
>> about either.
> So what is your suggestion that i swallow every unkind remark ? I do my
> best not to answer , but from time to time there are lines one should
> not pass.
I would not be arrogant enough to suggest to you how you should react
Mirjam. I was merely commenting on the unkindness shown.
show/hide quoted text
>
>> I was not referring to you specifically Mirjam, I was referring to the
>> people I have spoken to and used some of their words regarding the
>> situation they are in AS THEY FEEL IT.
> Of course no , but since you said some of your beloved Jewish friends
> feel they live in hell , i thought i may tell you , i don`t live in
> hell. I don`t know aho your Jewish & Palestinian friends are nore
> where they live , and i wish all a better life. And i hope that like me
> they know that a better life to all can be achieved only by working for
> it , not complaining about it .
>> Nor do I Mirjam unless they have referred to them selves specifically
>> in
> Sorry you took SPECIAL CARE to tell me you had beloved friends who are
> both Palestinians and Jews who feel that their life is hard... I on the
> other hand have many friends, who care and work, to make life better for
> EVERY Human being.
Thank you, it is sometimes difficult to express clearly what is meant - as
you well know! Sometimes what we say is not accepted in the way in which
it is spoken but I prefer to think these misunderstandings arise because
of not being face to face with the person to whom I am speaking. Text
alone cannot convey nuances of language.
show/hide quoted text
>> that way and speak on these matters to make a point to me. The people
>> to whom I was referring had done that and I was sharing with you what
>> they had shared with me. If someone tells me that they are black, or
>> Russian, or Irish I do not try to take away their definition of them
>> selves as it obviously matters to them.
> I will remember that the next time we have any discussion about this
> that etc...
> have a nice day /evening etc....
> mirjam
I hope you too enjoy your day and thank you for coming back to me on this
subject. I feel we have reached a deeper understanding of each other.
Apologies to others in the group for taking up so much space on here on an
"Off topic" subject.
--
Bernadette
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>> > Now I remember why I quit reading this newsgroup for a few years...
>> That doesn't surprise me at all Chris and is something I considered the
>> last time this sort of nonsense started. How on earth we expect to have
>> any kind of peace elsewhere when we can't even have it on a small sewing
>> group is beyond me!
>> It seems as though the word tolerance is meaningless. --
>> Bernadette
>
> Bernadette as you know i enjoy writing and sharing many knitting
> crocheting weaving and art things,