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Posted by on April 9, 2008, 7:09 am
> > mirjam
>
> I can't see any problem in schools teaching boys to do metal and woodwork
> and girls to do cooking and sewing. I think we've done a great disservice by
> trying to make everyone 'equal'. It hasn't worked.
Ps Mary, i think the first feministys thought more in terms of
IDENTICAL rights , which of course can`t happen , but we learned the
EQUAL rights are possible ...
mirjam
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Posted by Mary on April 11, 2008, 10:46 am
There were certainly some women to refused to do anything considered
"traditional female" things they considered subservient -- they didn't
learn to cook, clean, or do any needlework or craft or hobby that was
seen as traditional. Some even sneered at those who knew how to do
anything useful in domestic things. However, I knew many, many more
who just kept their mouths shut and learned anyway. They did what
they enjoyed, figuring that real freedom is the ability to choose for
themselves. I am a member of that generation, and am very glad I
decided to go my own way and learn whatever I wanted! Mother,
grandmothers, and aunts were always available to help and advise, and
we had some great times doing traditional things together, and I got
to know people who were in traditional roles but who also were
fiercely independent and made major business and banking decisions.
(One grandmother had taken over and run a steel company during the
Depression, and it not only didn't go under but also grew and made
lots of money and kept lots of people employed. In the evenings she
enjoyed cooking and tatting.) We also played a lot of bridge. My
father wanted all the daughters to be able to handle tools and do the
traditional "male" things, too, so we could be completely independent
if we chose, and gradually made sure we learned as much as possible
that was within our physical strength. I can make simple furniture,
patch a roof, hang a door, build a gate, wire lamps, trim trees and
hedges, change thermostats and light switches, repair plumbing, build
a fire, etc., and am very pleased about that! Of course, he also made
sure we all learned to fly airplanes and run boats, and encouraged us
to enter international air races and navigate the rivers safely.
People who learned nothing useful have had a difficult time later in
life, and seem to spend inordinate amounts of money hiring other
people do to simple things.
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Posted by on April 12, 2008, 12:40 am
Mary , i think you should Thank your Luck , for being born to parents
and family who could and wanted to be able to teach you all those
things you mention here. And of course you should thank your luck ,
for being born in a place and time that your parents & family could
indeed do it. And last not least , bless your luck for having such a
wide family.
> There were certainly some women to refused to do anything considered
> "traditional female" things they considered subservient -- they didn't
I am not sure those women themselves `refused` to learn those subjects
that were considered traditional female. For many iit was more EITHER/
OR they had no choice. If they wanted to learn Another Subject or
job , they had to work hard , against odds , sometimes work on the
side to survive . Thus they had to decide `how much effort they could
put into everything. If you hgave to study a job and work in the
eveings or nights, there are limits to one`s powers.
Of course i also know some ladies, who told me they DIdn`t want to so
it because they considered it Beneath them, and that it will stop
their advancement as an Equal person in the men dominated jobs. At a
certain time some people thought in manner . As you see i keep saying
some ,,,,,
I knew ladies of both sides of this Historical /sociological strory. I
sure don`t know it all , but i can tell you that Geography ,
historical timing, and economic status, WERE the deciding factors for
most of those decisions.
If you were in Usa , Uk or Europe it made a difference, If you were of
ceratin nationalitis it made a difference.
Last and not least, some women like to do it some don`t. The importnat
message that the Female moovements gave us , was that being awoman
doesn`t Authomaticly mean you have to know how to do the domestic
duties , nore do you have to know what you call `which were considered
traditional female` jobs.
> learn to cook, clean, or do any needlework or craft or hobby that was
> seen as traditional. =A0Some even sneered at those who knew how to do
As an inteligent woman , you know that sneering is a kind of
embarrassment, Let`s face it , not all women are so strong physiclly
that they can manage to Do everything , like you were so lucky , and
be good at it , so they have to choose to excell only at part of those
things, and there is nothing wrong with that . But Society has sort of
washed our brains, that we should be it ALL , superwomen , Thus those
of us who can`t be it all , really needed encouragement from those who
were so strong to so much , and hence the sneering, which to melooks
more like a Cry for help, from the Many demands society puts on
women .
> anything useful in domestic things. =A0However, I knew many, many more
> who just kept their mouths shut and learned anyway. =A0They did what
As i wrote about Not every one was so lucky to have ythis status in
life, to be able to do waht they wanted both with their earning work
as well their after hours hobbies [if they had any of those].
Now adays the world is Swamped with people many of them women , who
travel to a foreign country leaving their children behind , and they
work in as many jobs as they can , to make more money, to be sent
home, thus their kids have a better future.
> that was within our physical strength. =A0I can make simple furniture,
> patch a roof, hang a door, build a gate, wire lamps, trim trees and
> hedges, change thermostats and light switches, repair plumbing, build
> a fire, etc., and am very pleased about that! =A0Of course, he also made
> sure we all learned to fly airplanes and run boats, and encouraged us
> to enter international air races and navigate the rivers safely.
Yes You and your sisters learned a lot of wonderful things, and i hope
it made your life a good life.
Other people weren`t so lucky to learn all those abilities at home
with loving family members, and they also had no ability to try
International air races and navigation tests. And still when it came
to the real thing, they made the Big test and Survived Not an
international race , but a real flight for their Lives. I know people
who at 14 , Fed half a Ghetto, for months and sometimes a year. I
wouldn`t have been here if my parents hadn`t fled Mostly by foot. No
they never learned how to navigate a river safely, They were hunted
they were shot at and they Ran and crossed rivers, etc,,,,
> People who learned nothing useful have had a difficult time later in
> life, and seem to spend inordinate amounts of money hiring other
> people do to simple things.
I know people who learned all those things you consider Useful and
still hire help, and i think this is ok [ as well as provides more
jobs to other people !!] If they want to spend their OTHER abilities
on Other things .This is OK .
Let`s hope every person can enjoy their abilities, whatever they are ,
and if they feel paying others to do some jobs it Also ok . Believe me
we as humans , may Win wonderful Art, science literature etc,,, if
more persons whether male or female , were able to do that which they
are good at and enjoy , and pay others to do that which they are less
good at , and enjoy less.
mirjam
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Posted by Mary Fisher on April 13, 2008, 6:26 am
> There were certainly some women to refused to do anything considered
> "traditional female" things they considered subservient -- they didn't
> learn to cook, clean, or do any needlework or craft or hobby that was
> seen as traditional. Some even sneered at those who knew how to do
> anything useful in domestic things. However, I knew many, many more
> who just kept their mouths shut and learned anyway. They did what
> they enjoyed, figuring that real freedom is the ability to choose for
> themselves. I am a member of that generation, and am very glad I
> decided to go my own way and learn whatever I wanted! Mother,
> grandmothers, and aunts were always available to help and advise, and
> we had some great times doing traditional things together, and I got
> to know people who were in traditional roles but who also were
> fiercely independent and made major business and banking decisions.
> (One grandmother had taken over and run a steel company during the
> Depression, and it not only didn't go under but also grew and made
> lots of money and kept lots of people employed. In the evenings she
> enjoyed cooking and tatting.) We also played a lot of bridge. My
> father wanted all the daughters to be able to handle tools and do the
> traditional "male" things, too, so we could be completely independent
> if we chose, and gradually made sure we learned as much as possible
> that was within our physical strength. I can make simple furniture,
> patch a roof, hang a door, build a gate, wire lamps, trim trees and
> hedges, change thermostats and light switches, repair plumbing, build
> a fire, etc., and am very pleased about that! Of course, he also made
> sure we all learned to fly airplanes and run boats, and encouraged us
> to enter international air races and navigate the rivers safely.
> People who learned nothing useful have had a difficult time later in
> life, and seem to spend inordinate amounts of money hiring other
> people do to simple things.
What an excellent post! Thanks,
Mary
>
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